My Dream was to become the first listed store on this site. That would have taken an extremely long time to accomplish, so I took the "easy" way out by purchasing it. Yes, I own that store with nearly 500,000 listings and yes I have some faulty material in it, but I sold nearly 18,000 stamps last year, so it must contain material some collectors want.
As Michael Duehr asks " ... are you willing to spend the time to go through a store that has almost 500,000 listings on your own time?" to locate the "trash" and how do you define it. Unfortunately I am tasked with that responsibility. Personally I would never have listed some of the material, but to my surprise, some of the "trash" actually sells including torn, stained and separated stamps. This goes to show the "value" of a stamp is in the eyes of the beholder. One example was a really badly centered US#948, so I included a well centered copy at no additional cost in the order. The buyer thanked me for including the "bad" copy because that is what he really wanted. I was also pleasantly surprised at making multiple sales of the same stamp to the same buyer. Currently my inventory is decreasing in size because I'm spending all my time trying to "identify" many of the 50,000+ stamps previously listed as "unidentified box items" and deleting some of the really "badly torn or stained" stamps. In the meantime I probably will continue to annoy some collectors, but others like it.
When I first saw this thread, I thought it would be about me from someone who has private messaged me several times advising that I was dishonest and couldn't be trusted because I list defective stamps and it was his duty to tell everyone about me in the forum. I advised him that my stamps were guaranteed and a full refund would be provided for any reason, if the buyer was unhappy. He simply told me that it was ridiculous for me to be guaranteeing a defective stamp. "You show You are ridicolous and swindler every time You put in sale such stamps. The only thing You had to do iwas to cancel this sale and to Excuse yourself. You , on the contrary, were arrogant and rude. You should have to ashame yourself." Apparently grammar is not his top priority.
Personally I didn't think the stamp was as bad as this buyer claims. Was I wrong? Listing ID: 1216103 (Sorry I don't know how to place a link here). Your comments including an "appropriate" value for this stamp would be appreciated. I was told it shoud be zero. Thanks for your feedback.
John, Just one mans opinion, but I didn't see a problem with your stamp. But then again I saw no problem with Benjamin's stamp as it was listed as being not perfect. My problem is with sellers who think it is their place to force their standards on the selling community as a whole and bully or shame those who don't meet their standards. If they wish to have perfect stamps only listed why not start their own selling platform.
John, you referring to the Berlin 5 mark stamp? ID: 1216103 9N20. That stamp is in good condition and is a highly valuable asset to any collector. I have an idea that the same guy told me I sell rubbish and I should be ashamed of myself. Beautiful thing about it is he made offers on a number of stamps just after that and I declined all of them out of annoyance with his attitude. (While praying on the other hand, he does not buy anything in my store) You can imagine the feedback from a guy like that. My only 1 negative feedback received thus-far is amazingly with the comment from the buyer "post office error" or something to that affect. Sad but true, seller pays the price of feedback.
John your stamp is perfect. I cannot understand how a used stamp must be in mint condition to some collectors? That stamp is worth your 20% price easily.
Mark, it seems we as sellers need guts and tolerance to run a store online. Being the onlooker(chatter) is perfect for someone who needs to beat his boredom or to collect some points in his debating skills or to get rid of life's frustration.(not in my nature to be rude, my apologies)
Benjamin, Thanks for your feedback on my stamp. Feedback not justified can be corrected. Mark might be able to change your "negative" to a "neutral" based upon your comment, if he feels it was not justified. Fortunately most buyers work with you to help correct your honest mistakes, but some don't. I received 43 "neutral" feedbacks this month because a buyer said I missed sending two stamps and one was identified as "fault" when it should have been identified as "major fault". Apparently he was satisfied with the other 40 stamps, but he only remembers the 3 "problem" stamps. He had sent a message titled "please contact me" with no "message". When I asked how I could help, he never responded. He was new to Hipstamp and had only purchased 9 stamps from 2 different dealers previously and none since, so maybe his "bad experience" turned him off this site. Unfortunately some people expect perfection and accept nothing less.
Hello, since I started this thread I thought I would make a few comments to close it. And, with an apology since this is longer than I would like - because I have tried to cover the salient points and support my thoughts. This is written, not to be defensive I might add, but firstly to say thank you for the replies and observations made and secondly to address a few points, that I assume are directed at me personally.
The theme of my opening post was to ask a question and see what members views were. Seems after a few responses they become personal and not that pleasant. And also, we seemed to get off track from my opening points and questions pretty quickly.
I am not pushing my standards. Not all. I am a realist and pragmatic about what may or not be a definition of quality because there are so many interpretations and aspects to be considered. But I see no reason to not ask the question. And, I see no reason to be personally attacked for asking the question.
The concensus seems to be let the buyer decide because it is what the buyer wants for their collection that counts. That is fine with me. I have no objection to that. None at all. In fact I welcome that because as I know from my experience some buyers do pick up “spacefillers”.
But let’s all remember we should be describing our material correctly. What is “correctly” you may ask. Correctly is, in my opinion, to remember the definitions set up in, for example, and I use this as it is from a respected source, the Stanley Gibbons Catalogue Forward – a very clear and meaningful guide, again in my opinion ( yes I have been watching too much of The Goodwife (that was a joke you will get if you have ever seen the show ) – the Section I refer to is The Importance of Condition – Condition Guide. Scott does the same; Section 10A Grade and Condition, and again is very well articulated.
Why did I ask the original question, why do I think this. Well because if you read the many stamps groups on, for example, Yahoo Groups, you will see writer after writer showing stamps and asking what they are worth. They might have found the stamps in an attic, or been given them from a relative or family member and know nothing about stamps or philately. If we are to encourage the participation in this wonderful hobby, this wonderful activity, then surely we have a responsibility to be informative to collectors so they can in turn enjoy their involvement, at whatever level of, lets say, sophistication and expertise they wish to achieve because they can learn the knowledge we as sellers have gained over many years. And, in particular, so that people with collections handed to them, or new collectors in a few years time, perhaps, find their stamps are worthless because they are damaged or let’s say of not such good quality, and they say…. but I bought them for a dealer…………….. our reputation further eroded?
If discussing this was to beat a dead horse, so to speak, I apologies as I was not aware it had been discussed so much over the years. If it came across that my thinking was narrow minded I apologies for poorly presenting my question, and if it came across as me having high mined standards and bullying anyone then I again apologise. None of that describes me in the slightest.
Also, I was not degrading a seller – I will never degrade another seller - I never even mentioned a seller - and after the seller was named I can only say he has my respect - and apology for what may have turned out to cause him embarrassment. After all it was not his original listing anyway, was it, and not a reflection on him. I repeat, I was using the stamp in the image as an example, to ask a question. Sadly it all got distorted, didn’t it!
Finally, I will not be writing again, much as I welcome discussion and hearing the views of others on many philatelic matters, it seems threads – this one and many others that I have read - cannot be kept on track, responses become personal attacks and, as others have rightly said, time to stay away for a while. And Yes, it is time to close this thread. michael cddstamps
Someone once told me everything for sale, will sell eventually. I recall a $10 gold coin that was priced way above what a knowledgeable, reasonable buyer would pay. Years went by and then price of gold shot up and the asking price stayed the same. The coin sold.
Can you please clarify something for me. Would it not be correct to say that within this type there are 2 different issues in these threads. The first being the wisdom and logistics of listing either damaged items or a large quantity of inexpensive stamps (That should not be a problem with talking about that) The second one dealing with Hipstamps policies of how these are handled that may be a different story. (Shouldn't the final word be what you have stated in your policy,and shouldn't that be made clear so everyone is on the same page? And shouldn't that also end some of the debate and hurt feelings when you can point to the policy and just lay it out that this is the way is unless and until that policy changes?) It is just a suggestion but this just seems to me that this would be a BETTER way to handle this.
From what I read of Michael Dodd's OP what seems to come across is that the OP is asking for a POLICY change in which Hipstamp should take a more active role in dealing with some of these type of listings. (That in itself is NOT the problem) Now with Hipstamp ALREADY having a policy in which those type of listings are allowed (You even stated so in this very thread) wouldn't that make Michael Dood's OP a dead issue on how Hipstamp is going to deal with this since the policy is already in place on how Hipstamp already deals with it and unless you decide to CHANGE that policy doesn't that already make it a dead issue? And wouldn't it be better to just simply state your policy on this within the threads and it will remain that way for the foreseeable future as long as Hipstamp DOES NOT CHANGE THEIR POLICY on it? And to take it to it's logical conclusion that UNLESS and UNTIL Hipstamp CHANGES the policy that this whole thing on what Hipstamp will do is in reality a DEAD ISSUE and will NOT change?
I need to apologize to you also. I didn't think it through and it was done in poor taste. (Part of it was a bit of frustration) Part of the root of that is that as long as Hipstamp has the policy of allowing those type of listings on the site. Like it or not people buy them, as long as people buy those listings and as long as there are few complaints about them and those buyers are happy the material there is NO NEED for Hipstamp to change that policy. (This is and always will be a buyers driven hobby and as long as the buyers are happy there is no reason for Hipstamp to change that policy)
Now that being said the policies that Hipstamp have in place is to promote the welfare of the ENTIRE site which is very BROAD based as far as philatelic related material not just a fairly narrow segment of the market. And in that marketplace their are a very wide range of collecting areas and none of us are going to fill all those areas. Now while some people have had a huge problem with the former seller that had the largest stock on here,the thing is he also sold the most stamps of any single seller in here. (I myself don't agree with how and what he was listing. But what I can NOT disagree with no matter how hard I try is that he sold more stamps as a single seller than anyone else on here in excess of 250,000 items sold and very with good feedback,which means he had a lot of happy buyers) Now with him being a draw into Hipstamp itself what do you think is going to happen when they can no longer find anything to get from him do you think maybe just maybe that while they are on Hipstamp they may look at some of the other sellers stock? And many of those buyers buy from multiple sellers. Numbers don't lie and as long as the numbers show that those type of sellers have the sales they do,Hipstamp WILL not change the policy of what can and can not be listed. Arguing against success just simply will not work that's why arguing over what is listed becomes a futile argument. (That doesn't mean that other listings won't be pulled due to other reasons)
Before the internet people used to spend a lot more time playing with stamps than looking for them. There was almost always a one day show within easy driving distance every weekend and usually one or two two days shows a month close enough to drive to.
Many collectors (and fellow dealers) used to love “quarter boxes” - shoeboxes full of the same stamp design that sold for $25. Things like 2 cent red baby bank notes, GB #33’s, early GB kings issues with their color and watermark variations, #210’s, #213’s, even glassines with 1000 #65’s would show up once in awhile.
These provided material for the true stamp addict - they are no more. Sure, there are cigar boxes full of “neat stuff”, but most have been heavily picked over multiple times.
The same people who used to go through those are the ones who enjoy going through the so called “junk” on here. They are the backbone of the hobby, One of my first customers back in the 80’s would sit at my table for an hour or two pouring over my stock. He bought a lot of cheap material for cancels, color, etc. He always shared why he picked a particular 5 cent stamp out of my books - even if they were defective.
One day he brought a page from one of his collections in to show me. It was the Canadian Jubilee issue - complete - used.. Every stamp had a nice,full or partial CDS. It was truly remarkable. He told me he collected used rather than mint because it was a lot harder to find choice or unique used material than new. It took him over 20 years to fill the last space with a high value postally used copy. He said he could go out and buy a mint set tomorrow if he wanted to but it was no fun.
I have a friend who makes a very good living buying and selling stamps, postal history and ephemera. He gets as excited at finding something different worth 5 cents as he does at something worth hundreds of dollars. He thinks of his stock as his collection - wish I could do likewise - there is so much I want to keep…..
Just to re-clarify, I have in several other threads made it clear that low value listings are allowed on HipStamp; and that we have no intention of changing this policy at this time.
With regards to our specific term that "Prices must be realistic, and are not allowed to be excessive. The definition of excessive is at our discretion, but usually only applies to items listed at several times their actual retail value." I am aware of this (I wrote this), and that being the case, as I stated earlier - the listing in question complies with all of our terms.
In general, almost any item listed under a few dollars would never violate this term. Now if a seller lists a stamp which is worth $1, for $500 - that's generally an issue.
All that being said, there was also nothing wrong with the original post. I believe most of the negativity around this was caused by specific individuals (who have done the same thing multiple times), and who we are taking appropriate action with. With that in mind, I hope that everyone will use our forums to continue in healthy and productive conversations.
Mark I'm glad you made it clear that low value listings will continue to be allowed on HipStamp as I have many and would hate to see them eliminated with a minimum 99 cent cost as this would discourage many buyers. However, one suggestion I have is to set a minimum value just as you have done with regards to HipValue. I'm not suggesting that it be that 25 cent value that both HipStamp and Scott use, but rather a more realistic 5 or 10 cent that continues to allow collectors to fill their many empty spaces in albums.
I believe this move would not hurt anyone be it buyer or seller and would more realistically show buyers their true per stamp cost rather than allowing them to think they are buying stamps for 1, 2 or 3 cents only to later find a "hidden" per item shipping charge of 5 cents or more.
Setting s minimum price level is a slippery slope. Who sets it and based on what ? A ten cent minimum would not work when you can go to a stamp show and sort through nickle stamps all day long. Force a dealer to set a minimum price of a nickel and they will go 3 for 10 cents.
What is the point in telling a dealer how to run his/her business? Does anyone tell you how to run your business ? This country was founded on free trade and commerce - why do people always feel the need to tell someone else what to do when it is not hurting anyone? You run your business the way you want to and I will run my business the way I want to (within the rules and regs of the site). If the rules and regs become too restrictive you will find a lot of dealers leaving. Why do you constantly seek to destroy what has worked for a very long time.
Sorry but this whole thing with telling dealers what to sell and how they should price things is really getting to me. I've been in business since 1985 starting with classifieds in Linn's and a monthly auction - I think I have a fair idea of what I am supposed to be doing.
Just a quick question for you,since you are one of the sellers that many people have complained about the high quantity of low value items in your own store. (Yes I am aware of the fact that you bought most of your stock from another seller who was the original seller whom they complained about the very same thing you are asking to have Hipstamp now do to other sellers) Isn't it a bit ironic to ask Hipstamp to do the VERY SAME thing to other store owners that others have asked to have done to your store? Does that make any sense to you since you are already aware of the very fact that others have COMPLAINED to you personally about some things?
I didn't realize my suggestion would draw so many negative comments. To me they are not the VERY SAME thing. I just think that sellers should be more honest about what is the REAL cost of each stamp, but if most of you think it better serves to have hidden costs then so be it. Guess I will just go back to doing my own thing and not waste my time offering others my viewpoint because it is apparently not wanted here. I'll spend my time where it can better be used by cleaning up some of the material I don't want in my store either, but was included with the many other desirable stamps I purchased and listing more of the thousands of stamps I have in my inventory.
I would agree that there's no need for negative comments to John's post above. There's no reason we can't have a positive discussion on any of these items, even if there are different view points.
I completely understand what John was trying to explain, and it's a valid concern. As a Seller, if you're pricing an item at 10¢, with no additional per shipping costs; and another Seller prices the same item at 1¢ with 10¢ additional per shipping costs, is it then fair to show those two items next to each other within search results as 1¢ and 10¢ - because a buyer may then go directly to the cheaper item (if they're of the same quality), when in reality, it's actually more expensive (even just based on the per item shipping, let alone whatever the actual shipping is).
Personally, I don't believe setting a minimum listing price alone would resolve such an issue, since there's no reason the same seller charging 10¢ per each additional item on a 1¢ item could not do the same on a 10¢ item. However, it's helpful to hear this type of feedback, and suggestions as to how to address perceived issues.
With regards to the comment "What is the point in telling a dealer how to run his/her business?" I don't think that's entirely applicable here. As was also noted, at HipStamp, we do set terms and conditions, which all sellers must accept in order to sell with us. Those terms and conditions do include guidelines all of our sellers must follow - that's not telling anyone how to run their business, just what the rules are which must be followed in order to conduct business within our marketplace. These are important because it ensures a positive experiences for our buyers, which helps our marketplace grow.
Just to follow-up on the above. As noted earlier, we do have a specific term and condition that "Prices must be realistic, and are not allowed to be excessive. The definition of excessive is at our discretion" I also noted this almost never applies to items which are under a couple of dollars.
However, I do recall one case where we had a seller listing all of their items for $0.01, with a $1.00 per additional item shipping cost. In that case, citing both the above terms, and our terms on shipping, we asked the seller to update their pricing/shipping (which they did).
That's taking John's example to an extreme - but in that case it was very clear that it was negatively affecting our marketplace, as we received many complaints from buyers about the surprising totals they were receiving at checkout.
Just a suggestion if it can done,on the shipping filter would it be possible to add a line for sellers that do not or do have a per item charge where they could filtered out at that point? (I know a lot of people do not like the per item charge)
That may resolve some of the problems of the per item charge.
I fully understand the concern about hidden costs - there really shouldn't be any. While I believe that a dealer has a right to add a per item fee it should be exposed up front - not buried where you have to dig to find it. One of the problems associated with drill downs - it cleans up the pages but most people don't bother drilling down. If only the S/H could be placed adjacent to the price of the item.
John - my response was not directed at you. I tried to use generic terms like "people" and "other dealers" and the word "you" appears far too often. If you remember I responded to your request for thoughts on pricing levels via PM and promised to visit your store. I did so the other day and look forward to spending an hour or so when I have more time - you have a nice inventory.
I do acknowledge the need for rules and regulations and the rules and regulations here are more than fair and allow for a large degree of freedom without allowing for abuse - just about perfect. My wording could have probably been improved as I was not actually trying for negativity - just wanted to state my own opinion. Sorry that anyone took offense, like I said it was not meant to be directed at anyone in particular.
Carol - I do remember and thanks for visiting and your PM. My frustration came more from the following comments. Hopefully you will find some useful material in my inventory. ... John
I do apologize for not being more clear on what I was trying to get across. (There have been sellers and buyers that have advocating a higher minimum value then what you were addressing above. The higher minimum that they were talking would have affected you directly.)
As far as dealing with the per item surcharge,I don't think raising the minimum listing is going to change that. I can see why some of sellers would add a per item charge,if you're selling covers or over sized items overseas the weight of the covers can quickly add up to the next 1/2 lb rate. (I have never understood the need to do so on single stamps as you can ship a lot of single stamps for under the 3 oz rate.)
And I do agree with Carol that if the shipping and per items charges were seen up front it would resolve a lot of the issues with the shipping fees.
Just a suggestion. Knowing that a lot people do NOT read the policy page or in some do not UNDERSTAND the policy wouldn't it be a good idea that at the top of the chatter page you make a sticky thread that only you or Hipstamp staff can post to. In that thread give Hipstamps policy of what is acceptable listings and what are not and show some examples within that thread show what are acceptable and not acceptable listings on Hipstamp. Because part of this is coming from the fact that people haven't read or do not understand Hipstamps policies on this.
Wouldn't that be a time saver and far easier for you having that information already on a thread that you can point to INSTEAD of having to spend your time looking for the policy and then trying to explain that policy over and over?
After seeing others comments on my suggested minimum value, I now realize it would do nothing to address my concern with hidden charges. At the time I was only thinking about lower valued stamps and not addressing the bigger picture. I had forgotten my experience with higher valued items while bidding on stamps at our weekly auctions. Initially I was elated to have won several auctions on moderately valued material, only later to feel I was "a sucker" for having bid, when I received the invoice. It showed an initial shipping cost of $4 with an additional $2 on each subsequent item. Yes, I could have discovered this before I bid, but as I'm sure many others do, didn't take the time to do so. This turned me off to bidding in subsequent auctions because I'm too lazy to check and see who is offering the stamp and the related shipping costs. Perhaps others have also been turned off which doesn't help this community grow as a whole.
While this dealer only sells quality material with nothing under 99 cents, I checked his store today and discovered nearly 300 stamps valued at or under the incremental $2 shipping charge thus doubling the real cost to buy. This clearly demonstrates my suggestion of minimum value as being clearly inadequate. I had thought of another possible solution of establishing a policy requiring all listings to be priced at or above the store's incremental shipping charge. While this policy might be a small improvement, it doesn't address the major problem.
Carol's suggestion of showing the shipping charges with each listing, similar to the "hip value" currently being shown, would clearly be the best approach. This allows the buyer to know his "real cost" before buying or bidding. No "surprises" should make everyone happy.
Here's hoping this or an even better solution can be implemented soon.
In my humble opinion, the seller got exactly what he deserved. Perhaps this will serve as a warning to other sellers who charge excessive incremental shipping charges. They might want to reconsider, especially when they are offering inexpensive stamps at auction. However, this might have been avoided, if the buyer could easily have seen the "hidden costs". The stamps would have gone unsold and the buyer would be happy. Hopefully this doesn't turn him away from this site as most sellers provide fair shipping charges.
Oh, sorry about that Paul. The seller got less than the feedback he deserved, in my opinion. The issue of additional costs for additional items is a problem and sometimes I think I should do that as well. When I sell a bunch of postal stationery the postage costs can get a little much. So far, I just eat that cost. SO I can understand it a bit, but 50 Cents!!!
Comments
As Michael Duehr asks " ... are you willing to spend the time to go through a store that has almost 500,000 listings on your own time?" to locate the "trash" and how do you define it. Unfortunately I am tasked with that responsibility. Personally I would never have listed some of the material, but to my surprise, some of the "trash" actually sells including torn, stained and separated stamps. This goes to show the "value" of a stamp is in the eyes of the beholder. One example was a really badly centered US#948, so I included a well centered copy at no additional cost in the order. The buyer thanked me for including the "bad" copy because that is what he really wanted. I was also pleasantly surprised at making multiple sales of the same stamp to the same buyer. Currently my inventory is decreasing in size because I'm spending all my time trying to "identify" many of the 50,000+ stamps previously listed as "unidentified box items" and deleting some of the really "badly torn or stained" stamps. In the meantime I probably will continue to annoy some collectors, but others like it.
When I first saw this thread, I thought it would be about me from someone who has private messaged me several times advising that I was dishonest and couldn't be trusted because I list defective stamps and it was his duty to tell everyone about me in the forum. I advised him that my stamps were guaranteed and a full refund would be provided for any reason, if the buyer was unhappy. He simply told me that it was ridiculous for me to be guaranteeing a defective stamp. "You show You are ridicolous and swindler every time You put in sale such stamps. The only thing You had to do iwas to cancel this sale and to Excuse yourself. You , on the contrary, were arrogant and rude. You should have to ashame yourself." Apparently grammar is not his top priority.
Personally I didn't think the stamp was as bad as this buyer claims. Was I wrong? Listing ID: 1216103 (Sorry I don't know how to place a link here). Your comments including an "appropriate" value for this stamp would be appreciated. I was told it shoud be zero. Thanks for your feedback.
That stamp is in good condition and is a highly valuable asset to any collector.
I have an idea that the same guy told me I sell rubbish and I should be ashamed of myself.
Beautiful thing about it is he made offers on a number of stamps just after that and I declined all of them out of annoyance with his attitude. (While praying on the other hand, he does not buy anything in my store) You can imagine the feedback from a guy like that.
My only 1 negative feedback received thus-far is amazingly with the comment from the buyer "post office error" or something to that affect. Sad but true, seller pays the price of feedback.
John your stamp is perfect. I cannot understand how a used stamp must be in mint condition to some collectors? That stamp is worth your 20% price easily.
Mark, it seems we as sellers need guts and tolerance to run a store online.
Being the onlooker(chatter) is perfect for someone who needs to beat his boredom or to collect some points in his debating skills or to get rid of life's frustration.(not in my nature to be rude, my apologies)
Thanks for your feedback on my stamp. Feedback not justified can be corrected. Mark might be able to change your "negative" to a "neutral" based upon your comment, if he feels it was not justified. Fortunately most buyers work with you to help correct your honest mistakes, but some don't. I received 43 "neutral" feedbacks this month because a buyer said I missed sending two stamps and one was identified as "fault" when it should have been identified as "major fault". Apparently he was satisfied with the other 40 stamps, but he only remembers the 3 "problem" stamps. He had sent a message titled "please contact me" with no "message". When I asked how I could help, he never responded. He was new to Hipstamp and had only purchased 9 stamps from 2 different dealers previously and none since, so maybe his "bad experience" turned him off this site. Unfortunately some people expect perfection and accept nothing less.
The theme of my opening post was to ask a question and see what members views were. Seems after a few responses they become personal and not that pleasant. And also, we seemed to get off track from my opening points and questions pretty quickly.
I am not pushing my standards. Not all. I am a realist and pragmatic about what may or not be a definition of quality because there are so many interpretations and aspects to be considered. But I see no reason to not ask the question. And, I see no reason to be personally attacked for asking the question.
The concensus seems to be let the buyer decide because it is what the buyer wants for their collection that counts. That is fine with me. I have no objection to that. None at all. In fact I welcome that because as I know from my experience some buyers do pick up “spacefillers”.
But let’s all remember we should be describing our material correctly. What is “correctly” you may ask. Correctly is, in my opinion, to remember the definitions set up in, for example, and I use this as it is from a respected source, the Stanley Gibbons Catalogue Forward – a very clear and meaningful guide, again in my opinion ( yes I have been watching too much of The Goodwife (that was a joke you will get if you have ever seen the show ) – the Section I refer to is The Importance of Condition – Condition Guide. Scott does the same; Section 10A Grade and Condition, and again is very well articulated.
Why did I ask the original question, why do I think this. Well because if you read the many stamps groups on, for example, Yahoo Groups, you will see writer after writer showing stamps and asking what they are worth. They might have found the stamps in an attic, or been given them from a relative or family member and know nothing about stamps or philately. If we are to encourage the participation in this wonderful hobby, this wonderful activity, then surely we have a responsibility to be informative to collectors so they can in turn enjoy their involvement, at whatever level of, lets say, sophistication and expertise they wish to achieve because they can learn the knowledge we as sellers have gained over many years. And, in particular, so that people with collections handed to them, or new collectors in a few years time, perhaps, find their stamps are worthless because they are damaged or let’s say of not such good quality, and they say…. but I bought them for a dealer…………….. our reputation further eroded?
If discussing this was to beat a dead horse, so to speak, I apologies as I was not aware it had been discussed so much over the years. If it came across that my thinking was narrow minded I apologies for poorly presenting my question, and if it came across as me having high mined standards and bullying anyone then I again apologise. None of that describes me in the slightest.
Also, I was not degrading a seller – I will never degrade another seller - I never even mentioned a seller - and after the seller was named I can only say he has my respect - and apology for what may have turned out to cause him embarrassment. After all it was not his original listing anyway, was it, and not a reflection on him. I repeat, I was using the stamp in the image as an example, to ask a question. Sadly it all got distorted, didn’t it!
Finally, I will not be writing again, much as I welcome discussion and hearing the views of others on many philatelic matters, it seems threads – this one and many others that I have read - cannot be kept on track, responses become personal attacks and, as others have rightly said, time to stay away for a while. And Yes, it is time to close this thread.
michael cddstamps
Can you please clarify something for me. Would it not be correct to say that within this type there are 2 different issues in these threads. The first being the wisdom and logistics of listing either damaged items or a large quantity of inexpensive stamps (That should not be a problem with talking about that) The second one dealing with Hipstamps policies of how these are handled that may be a different story. (Shouldn't the final word be what you have stated in your policy,and shouldn't that be made clear so everyone is on the same page? And shouldn't that also end some of the debate and hurt feelings when you can point to the policy and just lay it out that this is the way is unless and until that policy changes?) It is just a suggestion but this just seems to me that this would be a BETTER way to handle this.
From what I read of Michael Dodd's OP what seems to come across is that the OP is asking for a POLICY change in which Hipstamp should take a more active role in dealing with some of these type of listings. (That in itself is NOT the problem) Now with Hipstamp ALREADY having a policy in which those type of listings are allowed (You even stated so in this very thread) wouldn't that make Michael Dood's OP a dead issue on how Hipstamp is going to deal with this since the policy is already in place on how Hipstamp already deals with it and unless you decide to CHANGE that policy doesn't that already make it a dead issue? And wouldn't it be better to just simply state your policy on this within the threads and it will remain that way for the foreseeable future as long as Hipstamp DOES NOT CHANGE THEIR POLICY on it? And to take it to it's logical conclusion that UNLESS and UNTIL Hipstamp CHANGES the policy that this whole thing on what Hipstamp will do is in reality a DEAD ISSUE and will NOT change?
I need to apologize to you also. I didn't think it through and it was done in poor taste. (Part of it was a bit of frustration)
Part of the root of that is that as long as Hipstamp has the policy of allowing those type of listings on the site. Like it or not people buy them, as long as people buy those listings and as long as there are few complaints about them and those buyers are happy the material there is NO NEED for Hipstamp to change that policy. (This is and always will be a buyers driven hobby and as long as the buyers are happy there is no reason for Hipstamp to change that policy)
Now that being said the policies that Hipstamp have in place is to promote the welfare of the ENTIRE site which is very BROAD based as far as philatelic related material not just a fairly narrow segment of the market. And in that marketplace their are a very wide range of collecting areas and none of us are going to fill all those areas. Now while some people have had a huge problem with the former seller that had the largest stock on here,the thing is he also sold the most stamps of any single seller in here. (I myself don't agree with how and what he was listing. But what I can NOT disagree with no matter how hard I try is that he sold more stamps as a single seller than anyone else on here in excess of 250,000 items sold and very with good feedback,which means he had a lot of happy buyers) Now with him being a draw into Hipstamp itself what do you think is going to happen when they can no longer find anything to get from him do you think maybe just maybe that while they are on Hipstamp they may look at some of the other sellers stock? And many of those buyers buy from multiple sellers. Numbers don't lie and as long as the numbers show that those type of sellers have the sales they do,Hipstamp WILL not change the policy of what can and can not be listed. Arguing against success just simply will not work that's why arguing over what is listed becomes a futile argument. (That doesn't mean that other listings won't be pulled due to other reasons)
Many collectors (and fellow dealers) used to love “quarter boxes” - shoeboxes full of the same stamp design that sold for $25. Things like 2 cent red baby bank notes, GB #33’s, early GB kings issues with their color and watermark variations, #210’s, #213’s, even glassines with 1000 #65’s would show up once in awhile.
These provided material for the true stamp addict - they are no more. Sure, there are cigar boxes full of “neat stuff”, but most have been heavily picked over multiple times.
The same people who used to go through those are the ones who enjoy going through the so called “junk” on here. They are the backbone of the hobby, One of my first customers back in the 80’s would sit at my table for an hour or two pouring over my stock. He bought a lot of cheap material for cancels, color, etc. He always shared why he picked a particular 5 cent stamp out of my books - even if they were defective.
One day he brought a page from one of his collections in to show me. It was the Canadian Jubilee issue - complete - used.. Every stamp had a nice,full or partial CDS. It was truly remarkable. He told me he collected used rather than mint because it was a lot harder to find choice or unique used material than new. It took him over 20 years to fill the last space with a high value postally used copy. He said he could go out and buy a mint set tomorrow if he wanted to but it was no fun.
I have a friend who makes a very good living buying and selling stamps, postal history and ephemera. He gets as excited at finding something different worth 5 cents as he does at something worth hundreds of dollars. He thinks of his stock as his collection - wish I could do likewise - there is so much I want to keep…..
With regards to our specific term that "Prices must be realistic, and are not allowed to be excessive. The definition of excessive is at our discretion, but usually only applies to items listed at several times their actual retail value." I am aware of this (I wrote this), and that being the case, as I stated earlier - the listing in question complies with all of our terms.
In general, almost any item listed under a few dollars would never violate this term. Now if a seller lists a stamp which is worth $1, for $500 - that's generally an issue.
All that being said, there was also nothing wrong with the original post. I believe most of the negativity around this was caused by specific individuals (who have done the same thing multiple times), and who we are taking appropriate action with. With that in mind, I hope that everyone will use our forums to continue in healthy and productive conversations.
Mark I'm glad you made it clear that low value listings will continue to be allowed on HipStamp as I have many and would hate to see them eliminated with a minimum 99 cent cost as this would discourage many buyers. However, one suggestion I have is to set a minimum value just as you have done with regards to HipValue. I'm not suggesting that it be that 25 cent value that both HipStamp and Scott use, but rather a more realistic 5 or 10 cent that continues to allow collectors to fill their many empty spaces in albums.
I believe this move would not hurt anyone be it buyer or seller and would more realistically show buyers their true per stamp cost rather than allowing them to think they are buying stamps for 1, 2 or 3 cents only to later find a "hidden" per
item shipping charge of 5 cents or more.
What is the point in telling a dealer how to run his/her business? Does anyone tell you how to run your business ? This country was founded on free trade and commerce - why do people always feel the need to tell someone else what to do when it is not hurting anyone? You run your business the way you want to and I will run my business the way I want to (within the rules and regs of the site). If the rules and regs become too restrictive you will find a lot of dealers leaving. Why do you constantly seek to destroy what has worked for a very long time.
Sorry but this whole thing with telling dealers what to sell and how they should price things is really getting to me. I've been in business since 1985 starting with classifieds in Linn's and a monthly auction - I think I have a fair idea of what I am supposed to be doing.
A like is not sufficient for your comment. Three cheers!
Just a quick question for you,since you are one of the sellers that many people have complained about the high quantity of low value items in your own store. (Yes I am aware of the fact that you bought most of your stock from another seller who was the original seller whom they complained about the very same thing you are asking to have Hipstamp now do to other sellers) Isn't it a bit ironic to ask Hipstamp to do the VERY SAME thing to other store owners that others have asked to have done to your store? Does that make any sense to you since you are already aware of the very fact that others have COMPLAINED to you personally about some things?
I completely understand what John was trying to explain, and it's a valid concern. As a Seller, if you're pricing an item at 10¢, with no additional per shipping costs; and another Seller prices the same item at 1¢ with 10¢ additional per shipping costs, is it then fair to show those two items next to each other within search results as 1¢ and 10¢ - because a buyer may then go directly to the cheaper item (if they're of the same quality), when in reality, it's actually more expensive (even just based on the per item shipping, let alone whatever the actual shipping is).
Personally, I don't believe setting a minimum listing price alone would resolve such an issue, since there's no reason the same seller charging 10¢ per each additional item on a 1¢ item could not do the same on a 10¢ item. However, it's helpful to hear this type of feedback, and suggestions as to how to address perceived issues.
With regards to the comment "What is the point in telling a dealer how to run his/her business?" I don't think that's entirely applicable here. As was also noted, at HipStamp, we do set terms and conditions, which all sellers must accept in order to sell with us. Those terms and conditions do include guidelines all of our sellers must follow - that's not telling anyone how to run their business, just what the rules are which must be followed in order to conduct business within our marketplace. These are important because it ensures a positive experiences for our buyers, which helps our marketplace grow.
However, I do recall one case where we had a seller listing all of their items for $0.01, with a $1.00 per additional item shipping cost. In that case, citing both the above terms, and our terms on shipping, we asked the seller to update their pricing/shipping (which they did).
That's taking John's example to an extreme - but in that case it was very clear that it was negatively affecting our marketplace, as we received many complaints from buyers about the surprising totals they were receiving at checkout.
Just a suggestion if it can done,on the shipping filter would it be possible to add a line for sellers that do not or do have a per item charge where they could filtered out at that point? (I know a lot of people do not like the per item charge)
That may resolve some of the problems of the per item charge.
Thanks Michael for your excellent suggestion.
John - my response was not directed at you. I tried to use generic terms like "people" and "other dealers" and the word "you" appears far too often. If you remember I responded to your request for thoughts on pricing levels via PM and promised to visit your store. I did so the other day and look forward to spending an hour or so when I have more time - you have a nice inventory.
I do acknowledge the need for rules and regulations and the rules and regulations here are more than fair and allow for a large degree of freedom without allowing for abuse - just about perfect. My wording could have probably been improved as I was not actually trying for negativity - just wanted to state my own opinion. Sorry that anyone took offense, like I said it was not meant to be directed at anyone in particular.
I do apologize for not being more clear on what I was trying to get across. (There have been sellers and buyers that have advocating a higher minimum value then what you were addressing above. The higher minimum that they were talking would have affected you directly.)
As far as dealing with the per item surcharge,I don't think raising the minimum listing is going to change that. I can see why some of sellers would add a per item charge,if you're selling covers or over sized items overseas the weight of the covers can quickly add up to the next 1/2 lb rate. (I have never understood the need to do so on single stamps as you can ship a lot of single stamps for under the 3 oz rate.)
And I do agree with Carol that if the shipping and per items charges were seen up front it would resolve a lot of the issues with the shipping fees.
Just a suggestion. Knowing that a lot people do NOT read the policy page or in some do not UNDERSTAND the policy wouldn't it be a good idea that at the top of the chatter page you make a sticky thread that only you or Hipstamp staff can post to. In that thread give Hipstamps policy of what is acceptable listings and what are not and show some examples within that thread show what are acceptable and not acceptable listings on Hipstamp. Because part of this is coming from the fact that people haven't read or do not understand Hipstamps policies on this.
Wouldn't that be a time saver and far easier for you having that information already on a thread that you can point to INSTEAD of having to spend your time looking for the policy and then trying to explain that policy over and over?
While this dealer only sells quality material with nothing under 99 cents, I checked his store today and discovered nearly 300 stamps valued at or under the incremental $2 shipping charge thus doubling the real cost to buy. This clearly demonstrates my suggestion of minimum value as being clearly inadequate. I had thought of another possible solution of establishing a policy requiring all listings to be priced at or above the store's incremental shipping charge. While this policy might be a small improvement, it doesn't address the major problem.
Carol's suggestion of showing the shipping charges with each listing, similar to the "hip value" currently being shown, would clearly be the best approach. This allows the buyer to know his "real cost" before buying or bidding. No "surprises" should make everyone happy.
Here's hoping this or an even better solution can be implemented soon.
I do wish shipping and the incremental charges were visible without having to click through several steps to determine them for a given item.
John, That huge feedback deficit to overcome, doesn't seem to have any effect on the additional items shipping charges!