The USPS postal regulation DMM 173.4.1 qualifies its definition of what a book is with "...consisting wholly of reading matter or scholarly bibliography".
That means the Wikipedia definition is not applicable and anyone who is delusional on this is defrauding the USPS.
Just because others do it, or you consider it to be so, doesn't make it right (or legal). Damn! Justification for bad behavior runs rampant among stamp collectors, but they complain to high heaven if they don't get what they bought, or they get defrauded. Still they're willing to do it to others. Just makes me sick!
Albums and covers are NOT eligible for media mail. Keep in mind that media mail can be opened anywhere along the route for inspection. Our post office regularly inspects both outgoing and incoming media mail. If inspected at the destination post office your customer will have to pay the priority mail price if they want the package. In my case it was a box of old magazines I ordered.The seller charged $10 S/H - the post office said because they contained advertising it would cost me over $70 postage due if I wanted them. Seller pled ignorance but returned my purchase price. Probably doesn't happen often in most places but I always ask how an item is going to be shipped if it looks too good to be true.
The 2010 USPS Inspector General annual report called for postal clerks to be more watchful for short-paid mail. The Inspector General report blog stated that in 2009, the USPS lost $600 million in short paid mail, most of the short pay being improper use of Media Mail.
In 2009, the USPS had a deficit of $3.8 billion. So the Media Mail fraud amounted for 16% of the USPS deficit, if I calculated that correctly..
If stamps are considered to be 'merchandise' for international shipping by the USPS/UPU, they most certainly are considered to be the same for national shipping, so not allowed under the Media Mail Rate. What I found most astonishing in this age of public forums and their concomitant lack of privacy is someone trumpeting their illegal activity for all to see....including the feds...if yer luck runs out...
DT -- Yes our opinions are biased. We choose to follow the law and not try to find ways to circumvent it for buyers like you. If we continued to ship stamps in First Class letters, then we could all sell more stamps. My international sales have fallen dramatically since the new regulations went into effect and I chose to follow the rules and not commit fraud.
Besides, the "buyers" wouldn't be committing any crime. It would be the seller, if they took your advice. It is "buyer's" like you that try to give bad advice to sellers, so you can save money. We don't make money on increased shipping costs. Others do including PayPal and HipStamp, but the seller's don't. Yes, we may collect more than the actual postage cost, but we also reimburse you if the stamps are "lost" in the mail when every dishonest collector makes a false claim. This little extra helps to offset those loses. Granted some may actually be lost, but my guess is many are not.
If you are so unhappy with the sellers on this site, then why not leave and quit offering misleading advice to others.
Now you are talking about something that the OP did not ask about. The OP asked about sending an album,first day cover albums and first day covers. Those do NOT qualify as media mail. Albums such as Scott's,White Ace,Lighthouse etc are NOT classified as media mail. First day cover albums are a binder and plastic sleeves,those are not media mail. First day covers are not media mail.
There isn't a seller in here trying to fear-monger a newbie buyer. It's the seller that would end up being in trouble with USPS for not using the correct classification.
Let's see hjow your opinion holds up in court when you are being charged with theft and defrauding the Postal Service. They HAVE and WILL prosecute you to the full extent of the law. The postal inspector do not F$$$ around. They mean business. There is no interpretation. Media mail does NOT apply. You can argue until you are blue in your face. If you use it, you are a thief. Period, End of story!
A while back I sold a number of Scott catalogs on another site. I checked out how other sellers were pricing their catalogs just to see what the pricing range was for the catalogs. At that time I also checked out what their shipping rates were because that also affects the total price for the catalogs. From what I saw most sellers were obviously shipping their catalogs using the Medial Mail rate since their listed shipping charges were well below the Priority Mail rate.
At the time I was under the impression that Scott catalogs would not qualify for the Medial Mail rate because of all the advertisements that are contained within them. Just to be sure I read through all the USPS information that was available online describing what qualified to be mailed at the Medial Mail rate. If I remember correctly, the USPS not only describes what can and can't be sent at this rate, but also gives a general description of who can use this rate. My interpretation of this information was that the Media Mail rate was not set up for businesses to mail merchandise of any type, but rather as a way to reduce costs for institutions (such as libraries, hospitals, etc.) to mail books and other types of described material at a reduced rate to help defray their postage costs since they are not making any money off of these mailings but rather just exchanging information.
The Media Mail rate was set up in an age when the internet did not exist. Now information can easily be sent in digital format worldwide almost instantaneously. But I remember when I was in college back in the 1970s and if you wanted to access a reference book that my college's library did not possess, they could obtain that book from another library as a loan. I am sure that they would use the Media Mail rate to exchange such material, with the much reduced postage charge making sense for such an application.
With most information now digital, the USPS could probably eliminate the Media Mail rate, thus preventing the inappropriate use of this rate (fraud) and thus helping to reduce their deficit.
We and you don't make the laws. I doesn't matter what you think, or what it seems. Do you walk into a store and pay $1.00 for a gallon of milk that is supposed to cost $4.00? Theft is theft.
"You can beat around the bush a album of stamps is the same as a book with stamps or book of stamps. Plus you stick stamps on the box as postage."
Just plain and simple , it does not meet the criteria of Media Mail. Probably one of the reasons that the USPS does not make money. Their rates are also lower than most developed country's
First most people do realize that media mail is a one way only service to begin with. If the buyer refuses to pay the postage due the seller in order for that item to be delivered MUST make up the difference or pay the full priority mail price to receive it back. The buyer in those cases where they use Paypal will be covered for non-delivery if they refuse to pay the postage due.
Secondly it is a felony to defraud to the post office. That includes shorting the required postage on any mail being sent by the required method. Which includes sending items that do not qualify as media via media mail,sending merchandise to international address via first class letter rate,using a label and shorting the weight etc.
Now as most of the sellers in here would be classified as businesses and since act of doing so is classified as a CRIME,on some of these each time a seller would do so would be committing multiple crimes per each time,the PO can charge you with postal fraud in which case if the PO goes after that seller and the seller is convicted that seller could be charged all back postage due,fined for each time,be given a criminal record (With all the loss of any rights that a convicted felon loses and possible prison time.)
If one is sending merchandise internationally and not sending it via first class parcel or better one can also be charged with smuggling goods which is also a felony each time,so that's double the charges per each and every time.
Dariusz - every person replying here depends on selling stamps as a part of their livelihood. Some are part time, some are full time. I have been registered as a business in NYS since 1985. Others have been around longer. We would all like to help you.This media mail issue has been banged around for over a decade on numerous stamp forums and other sales platform venues - dozens if not hundreds of threads. Stamp albums cannot be shipped via media mail - it is not a gray area. This from an old Ebay forum back in 2011 - "4. Binders/albums can generally be shipped just like books. Wrap carefully and pack in a properly sized box with fillers like bubble wrap if necessary, and mail. They must go parcel post rate not book rate, however." Note - "NOT BOOK RATE" and yet 9 years later the arguments by people persist.
As for the Feds not being interested that is simply not true - it is a matter of lack of personnel rather than a lack of interest. Media Mail fraud is on their radar when staffing allows. As I said earlier our postmaster does a pretty good job of spot checking. My husband spent almost 20 years working for the government. The majority of those years were spent in an investigative capacity .They were always interested in the little things - they are either a slam dunk with no push back or they lead to bigger things.
Frankly I don't care what you do. What I care about is that your advice could get innocent newbies in trouble - that is why this thread is active when it should have been abandoned long ago
You can not use Wikipedia to determine what the USPS classifies as media mail as it is incomplete. The USPS is suppose to use the DMM or IMM as their guidelines. (Domestic and International Mail Manuals)
Under media mail this is what is classified as a book that qualifies for media mail under the DMM
4.1 Qualified Items Only these items may be mailed at the Media Mail prices:
a.Books, including books issued to supplement other books, of at least eight printed pages, consisting wholly of reading matter or scholarly bibliography, or reading matter with incidental blank spaces for notations and containing no advertising matter other than incidental announcements of books. Advertising includes paid advertising and the publishers‘ own advertising in display, classified, or editorial style. b.16-millimeter or narrower width films, which must be positive prints in final form for viewing, and catalogs of such films of 24 pages or more (at least 22 of which are printed). Films and film catalogs sent to or from commercial theaters do not qualify for the Media Mail price. c.Printed music, whether in bound or sheet form. d.Printed objective test materials and their accessories used by or on behalf of educational institutions to test ability, aptitude, achievement, interests, and other mental and personal qualities with or without answers, test scores, or identifying information recorded thereon in writing or by mark. e.Sound recordings, including incidental announcements of recordings and guides or scripts prepared solely for use with such recordings. Video recordings and player piano rolls are classified as sound recordings. f.Playscripts and manuscripts for books, periodicals, and music. g.Printed educational reference charts designed to instruct or train individuals for improving or developing their capabilities. Each chart must be a single printed sheet of information designed for educational reference. The information on the chart, which may be printed on one or both sides of the sheet, must be conveyed primarily by graphs, diagrams, tables, or other nonnarrative matter. An educational reference chart is normally but not necessarily devoted to one subject. A chart on which the information is conveyed primarily by textual matter in a narrative form does not qualify as a printed educational reference chart for mailing at the Media Mail prices even if it includes graphs, diagrams, or tables. Examples of qualifying charts include maps produced primarily for educational reference, tables of mathematical or scientific equations, noun declensions or verb conjugations used in the study of languages, periodic table of elements, botanical or zoological tables, and other tables used in the study of science. h.Loose-leaf pages and their binders consisting of medical information for distribution to doctors, hospitals, medical schools, and medical students. i.Computer-readable media containing prerecorded information and guides or scripts prepared solely for use with such media.
A stamp album is NOT reading material and does not qualify as media mail. Books that contain advertising do not qualify for media either. The DMM is very clear on the types of books that qualify for media mail.
Not sure which postmasters that you talked to but they are wrong. The DMM is the final word on the matter not their opinion.
When asking a question on this forum you may or may not get the answer you are truly desiring to hear. In this case you are not hearing that answer you want to hear. This is a very informed group of philatelist with many years of knowledge not only in stamps but in ways of correctly mailing them.
Take heed and listen to them. They are not voicing their opinions to harm you or others. They know what they speak and we should be following their sage advise.
If you choose to go against the rules set by the Postal System so be it, but do not think this group is here to give you bad information. They are all agreeing and saying the same thing.
My My My, I was not casting any stones at all. You are saying the knowledgeable people here are not giving the correct information about Media Mail when indeed they are giving correct information.
And I do have the facts straight. So do with the information as you deem necessary.
I don't think that albums and covers fit any of the categories that USPS considers Media::::
Media Mail® service has special eligibility requirements for permissible contents. Media Mail rates are limited to the items listed below:
Books (at least 8 pages). Sound recordings and video recordings, such as CDs and DVDs. Playscripts and manuscripts for books, periodicals, and music. Printed music. Computer-readable media containing prerecorded information and guides or scripts prepared solely for use with such media. Sixteen millimeter or narrower width films. Printed objective test materials and their accessories. Printed educational reference charts. Loose-leaf pages and their binders consisting of medical information for distribution to doctors, hospitals, medical schools, and medical students.
I've bought comics, which also do not qualify as Media Mail, from a major online dealer where the parcel weighs at least 3 pounds, and the shipping label he printed says 4 oz Media Mail. How does the PO not catch this kind of abuse? He probably figures, if the PO does catch it, I will be the one stuck with the postage due.
Do what you want to do - just remember it is illegal, it is theft of services, it causes postal rate increases if enough people cheat, repeated violations can lead to fines and other legal action and etc.
Why stamp collectors feel it is perfectly fine to break the law to save money and defraud the government is beyond me. Makes me wonder if the IRS should include stamp collectors on their audit list....if they feel it OK to cheat the post office they must feel it is OK to cheat on their taxes. That's what brought Al Capone down - taxes.
Dariusz Tyszkowski: Please provide any written documentation from the Postal Service specifically stating that you can ship a "stamp album" via media mail.
When companies do mass mailings, the amount of underpayment of postage can add up. One example of postal service (post office) fraud is when a company is not eligible for non-profit rates or misclassifying nonprofit mail but lies or uses the nonprofit rate. Other examples of postal service (post office) fraud occurs when a company lies about the classification, weight or number of pieces. In one case, a credit card company repaid the postal service $6 million to settle allegations that it committed postal fraud because its credit card bills did not qualify for a discount rate that it was receiving. The whistleblower obtained $1.2 million for reporting the fraud.
As business people (and that is how we should think of ourselves), it is our duty to get the product we sell to the customer as quickly and inexpensively as possible. If the inexpensive is not possible we have to choice but to make up the difference outselves. I don't complain when I charge $1.00 postage but only put a 55 cent stamp on it. The reverse must also be true if we wish to remain in business as honest (that ugly word again) businesspeople. I can't waste the time to try to figure out a legal/illegal way of mailing something that won't go well in a 9x12 envelope - I reach for a padded priority envelope and mail it, taking that 45 cents from the other guy to help cover the cost. You would be surprized how acting honestly keeps customers coming back. And that is the whole idea.
Michael, sorry I didn't stick on topic, but DT's comments irritated me, especially about opinions being biased and shipping costs. I value the information and time you spend on trying to educate everyone and his comments seemed disrespectful to you and others trying to help others to do the right thing.
As a newbie I appreciate this post. I would have assumed albums qualify as media mail had I not come across this article. Thanks for the clarity! Very helpful!
You can beat around the bush a album of stamps is the same as a book with stamps or book of stamps. Plus you stick stamps on the box as postage. If you are sending car parts via media mail I can understand that it may seem not right but stamps c'mon.
Comments
That means the Wikipedia definition is not applicable and anyone who is delusional on this is defrauding the USPS.
With that, I'm finished with this discussion, because it isn't worth my time.
In my case it was a box of old magazines I ordered.The seller charged $10 S/H - the post office said because they contained advertising it would cost me over $70 postage due if I wanted them. Seller pled ignorance but returned my purchase price.
Probably doesn't happen often in most places but I always ask how an item is going to be shipped if it looks too good to be true.
In 2009, the USPS had a deficit of $3.8 billion. So the Media Mail fraud amounted for 16% of the USPS deficit, if I calculated that correctly..
What I found most astonishing in this age of public forums and their concomitant lack of privacy is someone trumpeting their illegal activity for all to see....including the feds...if yer luck runs out...
Besides, the "buyers" wouldn't be committing any crime. It would be the seller, if they took your advice. It is "buyer's" like you that try to give bad advice to sellers, so you can save money. We don't make money on increased shipping costs. Others do including PayPal and HipStamp, but the seller's don't. Yes, we may collect more than the actual postage cost, but we also reimburse you if the stamps are "lost" in the mail when every dishonest collector makes a false claim. This little extra helps to offset those loses. Granted some may actually be lost, but my guess is many are not.
If you are so unhappy with the sellers on this site, then why not leave and quit offering misleading advice to others.
There isn't a seller in here trying to fear-monger a newbie buyer. It's the seller that would end up being in trouble with USPS for not using the correct classification.
The postal inspector do not F$$$ around. They mean business.
There is no interpretation. Media mail does NOT apply. You can argue until you are blue in your face. If you use it, you are a thief. Period, End of story!
At the time I was under the impression that Scott catalogs would not qualify for the Medial Mail rate because of all the advertisements that are contained within them. Just to be sure I read through all the USPS information that was available online describing what qualified to be mailed at the Medial Mail rate. If I remember correctly, the USPS not only describes what can and can't be sent at this rate, but also gives a general description of who can use this rate. My interpretation of this information was that the Media Mail rate was not set up for businesses to mail merchandise of any type, but rather as a way to reduce costs for institutions (such as libraries, hospitals, etc.) to mail books and other types of described material at a reduced rate to help defray their postage costs since they are not making any money off of these mailings but rather just exchanging information.
The Media Mail rate was set up in an age when the internet did not exist. Now information can easily be sent in digital format worldwide almost instantaneously. But I remember when I was in college back in the 1970s and if you wanted to access a reference book that my college's library did not possess, they could obtain that book from another library as a loan. I am sure that they would use the Media Mail rate to exchange such material, with the much reduced postage charge making sense for such an application.
With most information now digital, the USPS could probably eliminate the Media Mail rate, thus preventing the inappropriate use of this rate (fraud) and thus helping to reduce their deficit.
We and you don't make the laws. I doesn't matter what you think, or what it seems. Do you walk into a store and pay $1.00 for a gallon of milk that is supposed to cost $4.00? Theft is theft.
Just plain and simple , it does not meet the criteria of Media Mail. Probably one of the reasons that the USPS does not make money. Their rates are also lower than most developed country's
Secondly it is a felony to defraud to the post office. That includes shorting the required postage on any mail being sent by the required method. Which includes sending items that do not qualify as media via media mail,sending merchandise to international address via first class letter rate,using a label and shorting the weight etc.
Now as most of the sellers in here would be classified as businesses and since act of doing so is classified as a CRIME,on some of these each time a seller would do so would be committing multiple crimes per each time,the PO can charge you with postal fraud in which case if the PO goes after that seller and the seller is convicted that seller could be charged all back postage due,fined for each time,be given a criminal record (With all the loss of any rights that a convicted felon loses and possible prison time.)
If one is sending merchandise internationally and not sending it via first class parcel or better one can also be charged with smuggling goods which is also a felony each time,so that's double the charges per each and every time.
As for the Feds not being interested that is simply not true - it is a matter of lack of personnel rather than a lack of interest. Media Mail fraud is on their radar when staffing allows. As I said earlier our postmaster does a pretty good job of spot checking. My husband spent almost 20 years working for the government. The majority of those years were spent in an investigative capacity .They were always interested in the little things - they are either a slam dunk with no push back or they lead to bigger things.
Frankly I don't care what you do. What I care about is that your advice could get innocent newbies in trouble - that is why this thread is active when it should have been abandoned long ago
You can not use Wikipedia to determine what the USPS classifies as media mail as it is incomplete. The USPS is suppose to use the DMM or IMM as their guidelines. (Domestic and International Mail Manuals)
Under media mail this is what is classified as a book that qualifies for media mail under the DMM
4.1 Qualified Items
Only these items may be mailed at the Media Mail prices:
a.Books, including books issued to supplement other books, of at least eight printed pages, consisting wholly of reading matter or scholarly bibliography, or reading matter with incidental blank spaces for notations and containing no advertising matter other than incidental announcements of books. Advertising includes paid advertising and the publishers‘ own advertising in display, classified, or editorial style.
b.16-millimeter or narrower width films, which must be positive prints in final form for viewing, and catalogs of such films of 24 pages or more (at least 22 of which are printed). Films and film catalogs sent to or from commercial theaters do not qualify for the Media Mail price.
c.Printed music, whether in bound or sheet form.
d.Printed objective test materials and their accessories used by or on behalf of educational institutions to test ability, aptitude, achievement, interests, and other mental and personal qualities with or without answers, test scores, or identifying information recorded thereon in writing or by mark.
e.Sound recordings, including incidental announcements of recordings and guides or scripts prepared solely for use with such recordings. Video recordings and player piano rolls are classified as sound recordings.
f.Playscripts and manuscripts for books, periodicals, and music.
g.Printed educational reference charts designed to instruct or train individuals for improving or developing their capabilities. Each chart must be a single printed sheet of information designed for educational reference. The information on the chart, which may be printed on one or both sides of the sheet, must be conveyed primarily by graphs, diagrams, tables, or other nonnarrative matter. An educational reference chart is normally but not necessarily devoted to one subject. A chart on which the information is conveyed primarily by textual matter in a narrative form does not qualify as a printed educational reference chart for mailing at the Media Mail prices even if it includes graphs, diagrams, or tables. Examples of qualifying charts include maps produced primarily for educational reference, tables of mathematical or scientific equations, noun declensions or verb conjugations used in the study of languages, periodic table of elements, botanical or zoological tables, and other tables used in the study of science.
h.Loose-leaf pages and their binders consisting of medical information for distribution to doctors, hospitals, medical schools, and medical students.
i.Computer-readable media containing prerecorded information and guides or scripts prepared solely for use with such media.
A stamp album is NOT reading material and does not qualify as media mail. Books that contain advertising do not qualify for media either. The DMM is very clear on the types of books that qualify for media mail.
Not sure which postmasters that you talked to but they are wrong. The DMM is the final word on the matter not their opinion.
When asking a question on this forum you may or may not get the answer you are truly desiring to hear. In this case you are not hearing that answer you want to hear. This is a very informed group of philatelist with many years of knowledge not only in stamps but in ways of correctly mailing them.
Take heed and listen to them. They are not voicing their opinions to harm you or others. They know what they speak and we should be following their sage advise.
If you choose to go against the rules set by the Postal System so be it, but do not think this group is here to give you bad information. They are all agreeing and saying the same thing.
And I do have the facts straight. So do with the information as you deem necessary.
Media Mail® service has special eligibility requirements for permissible contents. Media Mail rates are limited to the items listed below:
Books (at least 8 pages).
Sound recordings and video recordings, such as CDs and DVDs.
Playscripts and manuscripts for books, periodicals, and music.
Printed music.
Computer-readable media containing prerecorded information and guides or scripts prepared solely for use with such media.
Sixteen millimeter or narrower width films.
Printed objective test materials and their accessories.
Printed educational reference charts.
Loose-leaf pages and their binders consisting of medical information for distribution to doctors, hospitals, medical schools, and medical students.
Why stamp collectors feel it is perfectly fine to break the law to save money and defraud the government is beyond me. Makes me wonder if the IRS should include stamp collectors on their audit list....if they feel it OK to cheat the post office they must feel it is OK to cheat on their taxes. That's what brought Al Capone down - taxes.
When companies do mass mailings, the amount of underpayment of postage can add up. One example of postal service (post office) fraud is when a company is not eligible for non-profit rates or misclassifying nonprofit mail but lies or uses the nonprofit rate. Other examples of postal service (post office) fraud occurs when a company lies about the classification, weight or number of pieces. In one case, a credit card company repaid the postal service $6 million to settle allegations that it committed postal fraud because its credit card bills did not qualify for a discount rate that it was receiving. The whistleblower obtained $1.2 million for reporting the fraud.
https://www.howtoreportfraud.com/how-to-report-fraud-against-the-postal-service-post-office-and-receive-a-whistleblower-reward/