Why certify?

john o'neil

Perusing Canada listings on this site I see so many basic stamps of QV and the Admirals "with certificates". If a decent clear picture is posted front and back, a potential buyer can get a pretty good feel for condition. Is a certificate just money spent to justify a very high price? Some of the prices I see are darn near (IMO) outrageous. I've got several stamps in my "store" that I feel would stack up well with some "certified ones. In the coin business, sending a coin for a regrading is very common, and I have always felt there has to be some funny stuff going on.

Greg Doll

John,

Be careful about what people are calling certificates these days. You may be seeing a lot of EZGrader certs out there. EZGrader is simply software that calculates how well centered the item (any item) is then spits out a "graded certificate". The seller then jacks up the price based on that factor alone. Real expertized certificates, of course, cost real money and time and would not be typically used for basic and common stamps and would always come from a well known and respected authority. This EZGrader thing seems to have gotten a lot worse over the past couple of years.

john o'neil

Thanks Greg

Greg Doll

10-4

john o'neil

Take Canada 92. Not uncommon at all. The certification By Greene says It's genuine 92......"in all respects". That's all....nothing about condition. Seriously, this allows a price of over $1000?

Phil Merrill_

High grade Canadians are really in vogue now. Folks are fighting for quality, and having some sort of certification insures the timid. To my mind, real certifications are an assurance of geuniness, not quality. Variety questions, fakes or forgeries, repairs, things that another set of eyes with experience would help with, that is what certs are for.

john o'neil

I know I'm ranting, but ,like the one above, all the certificate basically says is that it isn't fake. If it was actually rated (ie Very fine, superb etc) I could see the cert making a difference. Blows my mind. Does anybody out there get certificates that only confirm the item is genuine? I mean if a sellers allows returns, why would I need a certificate? Unless some kind of variety, color, etc, you should be able to determine condition =once received. This is starting to remind me more and more of the coin business.

Scott Payton

John, a cert that states "Genuine in all respects" or "Sound and Genuine in all respects" is implicit that it is without faults.
I don't know Greene expertizer, are they credible? A grade is different, but if a stamp is unused, MNH, sound and genuine in all respects, if it has a CV of $1,000 then that would be justified for asking that price.
I don't know the Canada 94, so I can't really comment on its value, but there are varying levels of value based on quality. If you're a coin guy, you would of course know that. The same applies to high grade stamps. I would expect the 94 is not modern (Post 1940). But that sounds like a reasonable candidate for cert.

Greg Doll

Most professional certificates will have fairly brief descriptions as they are typically expert opinions on whether the patient is genuine or not. These certificates may sometimes describe details like hinging, gum condition (original gum...re-gummed...etc.), that kind of thing. There are a few expertization services that offer an additional grading service that addresses the condition and quality of the item...Graded Certificates.

Greg Doll

If I remember coerrectly, Greene is a well known Canada expertizer.

George DeKornfeld

Is.
http://www.greenefoundation.ca/expertizing_and_fees.html

Scott Payton

Nice. Thanks George. Will keep them in my back pocket.

Dennis Jorgensen

The Vincent Graves Greene Philateic Research Foundation, web site greenefoundation.ca is named after one of Canada's foremost Philatelists. Greene (1897-1988) was sometimes called " Canada's Grand Old Man" of Philatey and established the foundation in 1975. As well as expertizing the Foundation also maintains a Philatelic Library in Toronto ( open to the public) of books, auction catalogues, etc covering British North American stamps. The site lists the experts that are used to certify stamps and covers submitted and explains their certificates. While I do not know all the people named as experts the ones I do know "know" Canadian & BNA stamps.

Roderic Little

Is it acceptable to list an item on Hipstamp with an EZ Grader certificate?
I only found out about it a few days ago, while checking out the EZPerf software.

Michael Dodd

Terms and Conditions - Prohibited Seller Activities and Actions - Product Listing Policies

- E-graded stamps should not be listed within the Graded stamp category

Scott Payton

Roderic,
No one at the expert level accepts EZGrade. It can easily (no pun intended) be manipulated to say whatever you want, especially if you tweak it. So they are worse than useless (i.e. misleading). You can include an EZGrade cert image, but it's a waste of time, as everyone who encounters them will just move on. They are now considered a sign of "misleading listing".

Roderic Little

Thanks Scott, appreciate your input. Will save my money.

Roderic Little

Thanks also Michael, I did not notice your post before.

Mark Belrose

Phil,
I noticed your comment about high grade Canadian stamps. I've been considering getting a few of my nicer Canadian stamps certified by PSE. Christopher Rupp told me that Canadian collectors largely prefer VGG certs while US collectors prefer those of PSE, which I thought was interesting and makes sense. I'm wondering what constitutes "in vogue" regarding their popularity? Where are you seeing this?

Phil Merrill_

Frankly, I'm seeing it here on HS. Earlier last year I saw a lot of activity for Canadian stamps in the auctions I participate in. Well centered, never hinged material went fast and hard ( although certs were not an issue). Less well-struck material went begging.. I am not a big spender on these things, I am very happy to have what I have. But it was very obvious that collectors were paying close attention to good Canadian material. And I call it "in vogue " because even at my level, folks are willing to outbid each other. In my early days, Canadian stamps were poor second cousins. Not so today. There is enough specialized Canadian material in any Vance auction to make your head explode.