Envelop (and product) damaged by Post Office

Peter Charette · February 2020

I received a first day cover the other day that the post office admitted to having damaged. It came in a plastic bag that the post office provided noting that delivered product was damaged by them. It must have been dropped in a puddle of water as the envelop was completely soaked through. It wasn't an expensive item ($6) but do I have any financial recourse with the postal service? Is it worth my time go to the post office to make any type of claim to get reimbursed for the cost of the product and shipping?

Don't want to make a trip to the post office for nothing....

Thanks.

Rene Bravo · February 2020

Although probably not worth the hassle, they do have a reasonable responsibility to not damage items. Be prepared for the "you should have declared and insured it" response.

Jeff Frazier · February 2020

As a former Postal worker, I do feel badly for your "LOSS!" But I don't ever remember any person who passed me by when it was pouring down rain and I was trying to empty the collection boxes on my route offering to help me out so the "MAIL" wouldn't get WET!!! and I worked in San Diego, Calif. There are no excuses for mail getting wet or damaged in so many other ways, accidents on a freeway, fire, One of God's Natural Disasters, etc. but things DO happen that are not controlable by the USPS. AND how many times has this happened to you personally, OH first time??!! hahah. Lucky you. People kick the PO any time they want, I very rarely hear any one saying Thank You for the 300thousand + workers doing their Jobs Each and Every day!!!! We seem to forget that Nothing Man does is perfect, and let's not throw stones. Go to the USPS and ASK them for their HELP, Don't give them attitude,try asking what the solution would be and I'm sure you will receive more help than you thought you would..Just Saying........Jeff1313

Jeff Frazier · February 2020

And in reality, IT probably SHOULD have been Insured. That way if ANYTHING Happens your mail is covered in the event that something Should Happen before you take delivery of it!! Value is assigned by you!!! Good luck and let us all be realistic!! Jeff1313

John Eckhardt · February 2020

Jeff it's easy to say the shipment should have been insured, but are you willing to pay the cost? As a seller I'm not. You as a former postal worker should know that it is expensive. It would cost a minimum of $6.29. Your first class package rate is $3.90. The insurance would be $1.65. HipStamp would receive $0.56 and PayPal would receive $0.18. The seller would receive nothing for packing materials and/or labor. Is that fair?

I don't understand what you mean by "lets all be realistic". Please explain. In this situation, I applaud the buyer for not looking toward the seller for reimbursement. My guess is that PayPal would reimburse him because he didn't receive his merchandise in good condition. I doubt the PO will provide any financial help. As a seller, I wouldn't like "eating" the cost, but that is reality. Fortunately, the PO does deliver most mail without problems, otherwise no one could afford to be in business or make $6.00 purchases which cost $12.29.

Michael Generali · February 2020

On large purchases, I always pay the insurance for the package. I do not add it to my shipping costs, thus I don't have the fees to pay for a site or payment processor other than postage cost (minimum insurance cost is now $2.25, by the way). I have always done this.

John Eckhardt · February 2020

Been a while since I brought insurance with USPS, I now use Shipping Easy.

John Eckhardt · February 2020

I also don't charge for insurance when I choose to use it, as it protects me.

Jeff Frazier · February 2020

I didn't look at it from the sellers POV, my apologies. Everytime you add a service it eats into your bottom line, I understand, I do, maybe you can offer it if the buyer wants to pay, then if they choose NOT TO GET IT, they have no one to blame except themselves......I know the USPS isn't perfect but for what it does 6 days out of the week with the public and on Sunday internally I would put them up against any Postal service in the world and lets not for get We are still the Cheapest in the world!! The USPS is not a Bad Service and being totally self funded(NO TAXES USED) they do a pretty Good job overall in today's market place, Wouldn't you say John?? I'm not saying to put yourself out of business, but like I said earlier, maybe it could be an option for your customer(s) choice....In 58 years the USPS has only lost 1 letter/package of mine, and that was when I was in the Navy and I'm not sure if it was the USPS or the Navies fault! To all be well and make smart choices, Good Luck to all JF!!

John Eckhardt · February 2020

Jeff I thought I made it clear, I do appreciate what the postal service does by stating " the PO does deliver most mail without problems". I don't understand your suggestion that an insurance "option" should be made available to the buyer. The buyer is already protected by PayPal without needing to pay extra.

If you have only lost 1 letter/package over 58 years, you have been extremely lucky. I know many people have not had your luck, including me. Letters/packages coming to me have been lost, even one valuable parcel which the seller made good to me. I get several buyers each year also claiming non-receipt. While some of those claims might no be true, I'm also sure that some are true.

On a side note, my dad retired from the post office, so I do appreciate the hard work they do.

Michael Hynes · February 2020

Yep, it's a no win situation for sellers of low value items. The good news is the actual risk is pretty small. I usually take the risk since I've sent thousands of stamps in letters without issue, and just refund the very small number that get lost or damaged. It stinks but fortunately we stamp collectors are more honest than the general population by far!

Martin Glaenzer · February 2020

I am pretty sure that on standard mail, no added services purchased you would have to accept reasonable risk. So no, going to the USPS would be a waste of time.
A buyer the other day accused me of 'ripping him off', because his stamp never arrived.
It was $1.92 stamp w/ free shipping. He said, I should have out tracking on it for just a little more.
Yeah, sorry, nobody wants to pay for that.
I told him: With almost 1 Million items shipped in my online selling career, I NEVER ripped anyone off. I sent a replacement and wished him well.
First time this happens since I started selling stamps and postcards. How much did i 'save' not buyingh tracking on all the cheap stuff? Totally worth replacing the item for about 60 cents actual cost. (Photo mailer and postage, the stamp was basically almost free in a bulk purchase).
As a responsible seller, I would reimburse the O.P.s purchase. But that's just me. There is shrinkage everywhere. Just cost of doing business.

Wayne Camolli · February 2020

Ummm, that was me. The seller not the buyer. Peter wrote to me about it too. I have been told it is the mailer's responsibility to "put in a claim" for damaged ites. By the same token the postal service worker I spoke to said something like: you know we don't have to reimburse anyone for mail that can be instured." In otherwords pound salt.
I gave up - it was an exercise in futility anyway. So...I refunded the customer - my insurance pays most of the cost anyway.

Jeff Frazier · February 2020

My apologies John E. , and yes I would say that I have been luckier than most. Not having delved into the selling side of Stamps I really don't have any business "putting in my 2 cents." Again my apologies, I also worked for the USPS and it just gets under my skin a little when someone takes a "Shot" at them. was on the window till I just couldn't take the attitude anymore...Sorry. And I congratulate your Dad for being able to Get out Alive!!! Better luck to all in the future.

Tania Radley · February 2020

In the UK we have had more rain the the past 18 months than I can ever remember. Because of this I send All covers inside plastic sleeves (and seal them) in the postage envelope to protect them. Also all items with a total value of £25 or more are sent insured.

As the USPS sort of admitted the damage was their fault - then when a similar thing happens in the UK with uninsured mail - if you make enough "noise" and complain to Royal Mail they usually send you a free book of 6 1st. Class postage stamps worth £4.20 but you have to pester them and write at least a couple of times. Is it worth spending all this time? - you decide?

Roger Wells · February 2020

As a seller here, I find myself relying on a case-by-case intuition of whether or not I feel nervous about the amount involved. Surely any sales of perhaps $150 or more I'm inclined to insure, and do so with smaller amounts when I notice the buyer has single-digit feedback. I haven't noticed anybody mention you can pay USPS insurance with "face" stamps on the envelope; buying (or auction sniping!) occasional large batches of unused issues can cost at most in the 60-70% of face range (more, of course, if exclusively $1-upwards denominations) and I've found most clerks will hand-cancel a booklet pane or 10-stamp block adhered to the back of an envelope or mailer to cover most of the cost of value-added mailings.

Generally I've found simple envelope losses are in the range of 1/200- 1/300, so having a base S&H fee of $1.25 plus 5c extra for any additional enclosures leaves me happy doing self-insurance, in effect, plastering those bought-at-65%-of face stamps on each envelope.

John Eckhardt · February 2020

Roger, how are you able to "insure" by applying stamps to the back of an envelop? My PO only insures packages?

Roger Wells · February 2020

Several times now, a couple days ago most recently, I've simply handed a 55c-rate business-size envelope to the clerk and said, "I'd like $X insurance on this." A time or two I've volunteered the value involved was in a couple of pricey collector stamps. One clerk sort of grumbled that in case of a claim there might be objection from the PO over actual value of contents, ie documentation thereof. Last one that went out insured, I therefore arranged the Hip sale invoice, addressed and stamped envelope, and glassine with purchased stamps visible (dimly) within, printed the color scan, and tucked it away with the PO sales slip showing $150 insured value. Perhaps they're making a mistake allowing an envelope to be insured? Suppose I'll find that part out for sure if I do ever make a claim. I do seem to recall one clerk perhaps a year ago saying something about a thicker, heavier mailer would be necessary to allow insurance so perhaps one really should at least pack even one stamp into a padded mailer or manila envelope, add a couple of cardboard stiffeners, pay for several ounces oversize, and calculate insurance on that packet. However, the magic computer the clerk enters the transaction into "knows" this is <1 oz envelope, and that it's being insured, and has allowed it several times now. Perhaps the official terms have changed?

Another factor I've had in mind when I've paid for these last few insured envelopes is that even though there's not a full delivery confirmation, nor signature requirement, the fact that I can list a tracking number for the buyer and that there's insurance, just might deter a sometimes "dodgy" buyer from outright claiming the purchase never arrived.

Ah, here, let me upload a slightly redacted scan of that last receipt. <img src="https://www.hipstamp.com/forums/uploads/imageupload/761/KSXYGJMXRM68.jpg" alt="a6806X" title="a6806X"/>

Dariusz T · February 2020

Just be mindful of weather when you order and when the expected delivery can happen. Open a PO box, ask seller to put item in a small zip-lock bag, some do that automatically. Offer 0.10c or something to add some reasonable extra protection.

Peter Charette · February 2020

Wow, I didn't expect to "stir to pot" sort of speak. I JUST started collecting again since I found my old collection of stamps from my youth. So all relatively new to me... Anyway I honestly didn't bother the seller since I personally believe that I assume the risk of delivery. Just the way I work. If I decide to purchase something pricier, I can always discuss insurance options with seller. Lesson learned. Thanks for all the feedback and insightful conversation. Let us not forget why we do this, really enjoying the fun of stamp collecting again and not going (for now) let a Post Office SNAFU ruin the experience for me!

Envelop (and product) damaged by Post Office

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