An American once walked on the moon. We have men and women circling the earth in a space station. Is it a far reach to think we cannot come together and find a way to save our children? Pray for the families of the murdered children, pray for us all. Pray for the children.
There is a deep sickness lurking in the souls of some of our young males...the profile is obvious, the recipe's for disaster are known. One of the greatest reasons this persists are the vile politicians who don't allow the REAL causes to be addressed. I work with young families and kids, and it starts in the family, and the culture that gives human life lesser value these days. Isolation, corrupt, demented social media , violent media ( video games, movies, music), no mentorship or role modeling , absent moral compass, frustration and rage.... this is not rocket science.
I don't want to take away from the Texas tragedy, but Rene kicked my soap box.
BEGIN RANT
Addressing the REAL causes has two major flaws. 1. There is no money in it. 2. The government can no longer use it to spread hate and discontent. They only stay in control by fear.
The attempt to scare us into socialism called covid proves this. As soon as it was no longer profitable for big pharma and we were irritated and no longer frightened, the drum beating stopped, almost overnight. The new drum is once again gun control.
Now the ... individual ... didn't have political motives. He had obvious mental conditions. However, the tears hadn't even hit the cheek and it had already been spun by government officials on both sides into gun control arguments, instead of the real problem - mental illness. But saying the individual was sick isn't politically correct so let's blame the gun, that's safe.
The government intentionally divides us. They intentionally keep us in fear. That is the only way they can maintain control. We no longer have a government of the people, for the people. It is a government of itself, for itself. For years I used to preach to anyone that would listen that we need to take back our government before it's too late. Guess what, it's too late, we are past the point of reset.
I digressed, but I'm a bit pissed off and can't stay rational. Overthrowing our government won't bring any of those kids back but Rene is 100% right. This will never end until we talk about the real problem and quit allowing our government to distract us with control measures.
Ok, if we are ranting, gentlemen, I'm 62 now with some health problems. I hope I have 5 good years left, and frankly, I do not give a wet runny crap about pissing folks off anymore about issues I care about. I find it thoroughly hypocritical that so many of my fellow citizens are so concerned about the "right to life" of the unborn, yet care nothing about preserving the right to life of the living. Somehow, my "right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" ends at the right for others to own a gun. In Texas, it was fully legal for this young person to buy two semi-automatic assault rifles on his 18th birthday.. Thus, I can only infer that it was fully legal for him to slaughter a roomful of elementary school students and teachers. So what is the problem? This is what the NRA wanted, right? Sell guns to everybody! And Texas governor Abbott encouraged Texans to buy more guns to catch up with California!
I'm sorry. This is America in the 21st century, it is not Beaver Cleaver Land, it is not the old west. It is not apartheid South Africa, it is not Isreal, it is not Afghanistan. And it is certainly not what I expected for my salad days. I am ashamed to be an American now. We are having a civil war and we won't do anything to stop it.
A final observation. Why don't our Republican senators use some of that NRA blood money they get every year to pay for funerals in Buffalo and Uvalde? Have I pissed enough folks off? I hope so.
I agree Phil, except for the "hypocritical" part. I, myself, find it hypocritical, reprehensible, and immoral. The gun nuts . . . sorry, that should be a capital NUTS . . . think only in binary terms -- that either one has complete and utter freedom to buy any weapon they wish, and to shoot anybody they wish, for any reason they wish . . . or the libtards are going to steal their toys. Whether the shooter's motive was political or purely emotionally driven is irrelevant. A major problem is that there were no controls in place, and too much freedom for him to easily buy these weapons of mass destruction. When it becomes far easier to buy two rifles and ammo and kill a room full of children than it is to buy a tube of cement to assemble your model airplane, something has gone terribly wrong with the world . . . and it wasn't done by the left wing. Now, go ahead, take your best shot (see what I did there?), Don. I'm a big boy, now, at 67; I can take it.
Gentlemen, and do mean gentlemen, and with all due respect and understanding, my original post here was not intended to initiate a discussion on the merits or lack thereof of our collective gun control issues. I do understand and respect that there are many views on the topic and I also understand the need to "rant" on the subject. I am horrified, as most are, by what happened in Uvalde but my original post was intended to simply ask everyone to put their hearts and minds and prayers into the souls that were lost to their friends, families, and neighbors,
Everyone deals with tragedy in their own way. Some are healthier/more productive than others. But we can't judge reactions. Just know I support all of you.
One of the measures of a civilized society is how well it looks after the most vulnerable members of its society. If that is true, and it most certainly is, then we are rushing headlong into losing our country as we know it. We are not losing it to foreign invaders or inflation or immigrants but to the powerful few who care for nothing other than power and prestige. They run for office as saviors of the world (we already have one, thank you) and spend their time in office amassing power and money without a care or clue of the suffering and deaths of others. How can one possibly look at the pictures of the children massacred in Uvalde and not be moved – we are…they obviously are not. A final note: When I was in the 9th grade (we used slate tablets), my civics teacher observed that the Bill of Rights is also a Bill of Responsibility (my freedom of speech ends at your nose). Lest we forget.
Such a tragedy. Cannot imagine how this has affected all the survivors and families of the deceased. I know many will disagree, but in reality, we will never get rid of guns. The criminals will always have, find, or make, guns....always. Sooner or later, this will result in non criminals obtaining them illegally, but doing it anyway. So, all that will be added is more use of law enforcement and the courts chasing the formerly legal. As for outlawing certain types of guns, does anyone remember the Univ of Texas shooter in the 60s? He had a single shot hunting rifle, and ended up killing 16 people and wounding 31 others before being killed. It's got to go directly to trying to ID beforehand a type of mentally ill people beforehand. Certainly denying them easy access to weapons, but also trying to help them. I'm rambling, but there is no quick fix to this....wish there was.
Guys, Im going to apologize and retract some. I was upset and should have thought it out better. Gun control is necessary. There is no need for a child 2 days over 18, still in school, to be able to legally buy a gun. The point I was mad about and poorly expressed was that the tragedy wasn't over, there were people still looking for their children, and government officials were already arguing from both sides that the gun was to blame. This was a failing of the system nothing more, nothing less. The only thing that should have been of concern that day should have been for the victims involved and for the families who could not find their children after. The politics could have and should have waited. They were intentionally introducing hate and discontent into a situation where frightened parents were just looking for their kids.
A few years ago when the shooting at Margery Stoneman Douglas High School happened my store sold that gun to the kid. I have always said make the requirements harder for people to purchase a weapon. Make them go to a school so they learn about guns. Make them go to a morgue and see what a victim looks like when they've been shot. Make it harder for them to buy the gun.
I grew up with guns. I was taught at a young age to respect what happens when you pull that trigger. This is something that I'm not sure happens with the kids these days. Parental control has been lost.
Guns don't kill people, people kill people. We have the right to bear arms. Just make it harder for us to buy that gun.
Well said, Luree. My late wife Carol and I hunted and had guns in the house (in our little town you would find a gun or two leaned against a wall somewhere near a door in most homes,) Most people didn't lock their doors, either. When we closed on our house the owners apologized that they couldn't find a key - they weren't sure whether they ever had one or not. Personally have no problem with the morgue suggestion but it wouldn't fly in modern society. When our kids went to school the third grade class went to a small local turkey farm and watched then kill and dress a turkey. You could pick out a chicken or rabbit at the local farmers market and they would kill and butcher it right there (Syracuse NY - 1970's) Times change.
I'd drive into my HS parking lot with a Marlin .22 Magnum in the rear side window rack. In college, I'd walk out of my dorm with my bird vest on and a 12-gauge on my shoulder, meet my buddies at the campus parking lot (all similarly outfitted), and off we'd go to do some pheasant hunting. Its society that's AFU today, and with God removed from just about everywhere, negating the Judeo-Christian principles this country was founded on, this shouldn't come as some huge surprise. If that phucking psycho didn't have access to guns, I'd be willing to bet he, instead, would have taken a joy ride with Granny's pick up truck, thru the playground during recess with at minimum the same horrific results. Do we outlaw cars? How about when some drunken slob hops the sidewalk in Manhattan and mows down 30-people before ending up upside down in the middle of 2nd Avenue (as a NYC Paramedic, I WAS THERE). That scumbag walked away while over 15 lay dead on the sidewalk. Its the PEOPLE, not the inanimate objects causing all this mayhem. I live in a rural area. If someone breaks into my house at 3a.m., I could call the Troopers who would certainly respond, and show up in about 15-20-minutes, long after I'd already be dead, or I can use my Constitutional right to defend myself, and will. For those eager to completely rely on P.D. to keep us safe, this article should be a bit of an eye-opener:
To my above point, Norway last year. A crazy killed five with a bow & arrow and knives, as well as injuring dozens. In the UK, you can't buy sharp knives anymore, and I'd probably get arrested if they caught me with my Schrade pocketknife that goes wherever I go. Its the people that are crazy, not the inanimate objects:
Fine. Let's see.... Five dead with a bow and arrows. Twenty-one dead with an assault rifle. You are exactly right there, George. I don't see any difference at all...
Its rather sad, there, Phil, that I fully expected you to say something like that. Well, since those five lives don't seem to count for you, how about some of the incidents around the world were the crazies used fully automatic motor vehicles to cause death and destruction (and cars are no more able to kill anyone by themselves than knives, bows & arrows, or so-mis-called assault weapons). Here's a nice one, and I hope the numbers suite: "Nice, France. A Tunisian resident of France, Mohamed Lahouaiej-Bouhlel, used a rented cargo truck to run through a Bastille Day crowd in June 2016, killing 86 people and wounding hundreds more." https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2018/04/23/list-fatal-vehicle-attacks/544603002/
Clearly, we need to ban automatic transmissions, but we're not trying to take away anyone's stick shifts...
The thing is, George, no one on the Republican side is even considering anything whatsoever, to take the smallest step, or to begin to consider what can be done. And don’t even start with the mental health argument, because 1) “There is no evidence the shooter is mentally ill, just angry and hateful“ 2) “it is very rare for a mass shooter to have a diagnosed mental health condition.” 3) that bass turd in Austin, “conceded the slain 18-year-old suspect had no known mental health issues or criminal history, and 4) also cut 211 million dollars of funding from the Texas Department Of Mental Health. Having hateful thoughts and perpetrating violent acts does not make someone “mentally ill.” That is just a convenient term used by people who don’t know the first thing about mental illness, and simply want to divert the argument away from some inconvenient truths. Anyway, mental illness is not unique to this country. Australia has the same rate of depression as the US. How often is there a mass murder there? You really think your argument vis a vis a bow and arrow is rational and valid? That one mass killing in that way really negates the argument against guns which have been the cause of literally hundreds of times more deaths? After Australia’s gun buyback program murders and suicides fell dramatically. Why? Why didn’t the mass murderers simply buy knives, bows snd arrows, and poison darts, and continue their rampage? You know why. It’s because guns embolden people more so than any other kind of weapon. Guns provide small minded people with artificial courage, and satisfy their fantasies of power and control. Just look at those republican politicians (men AND women) who post their gun-toting photos and Christmas cards on social media. These people are not mentally ill, but they are certainly SICK. The whole gun culture is sick. And it’s this gun culture that is directly enabling these mass murderers to commit these atrocities. But the gun culture is afraid to admit it because they are oh so afraid of losing their toys. Sick.
Gun control's fundamental problem is that it tries to deal with "gun violence" as if it's a separate and unique phenomenon. But it's not: it's simply violence that happened to include a gun. By focusing on the gun aspect of the problem, your best-case-scenario will still include violence. Yet if we focused on the violence aspect instead, we wouldn't have to worry about the guns...
Next time someone compares the USA's "gun homicide" rate to other countries, try something: look at the USA's *non-gun* murder rate, and compare that to other countries *overall* murder rate. As it turns out, even if we magically erased all guns (and the crimes that went with them), we'd still be more than twice as homicidal. It's not a gun problem. It's a violence problem that happens to include guns.
I'm with Jeri on this. Vermont has few restrictions - anyone who can legally own a firearm can legally carry it almost anywhere. Rifle, shotgun or handgun; open or concealed carry - no permit required. No background checks over and above the Federal check if purchased at a dealer. Between 2013 and 2018 there was one mass shooting (standard definition of over 4 people shot),,,,during that time period sales between individuals were permitted with no background check.
In Vermont in 2018 there were 80 gun deaths - 10 homicides and 70 suicides.
Small state but per capita figures were below mean.
My heart breaks and aches for these little muchachitos, precious little ones deprived of their lives by a monster , a horrible, evil , deranged monster. They look like my grandkids. It is time for sorrow. There will be much blame later. We all need to agree that even though the foolish, lightweight political class may try to weigh in to "fix this", the answer is MUCH deeper and difficult. It all starts at home.
Comments
Is it a far reach to think we cannot come together and find a way to save our children?
Pray for the families of the murdered children, pray for us all.
Pray for the children.
BEGIN RANT
Addressing the REAL causes has two major flaws.
1. There is no money in it.
2. The government can no longer use it to spread hate and discontent. They only stay in control by fear.
The attempt to scare us into socialism called covid proves this. As soon as it was no longer profitable for big pharma and we were irritated and no longer frightened, the drum beating stopped, almost overnight. The new drum is once again gun control.
Now the ... individual ... didn't have political motives. He had obvious mental conditions. However, the tears hadn't even hit the cheek and it had already been spun by government officials on both sides into gun control arguments, instead of the real problem - mental illness. But saying the individual was sick isn't politically correct so let's blame the gun, that's safe.
The government intentionally divides us. They intentionally keep us in fear. That is the only way they can maintain control. We no longer have a government of the people, for the people. It is a government of itself, for itself. For years I used to preach to anyone that would listen that we need to take back our government before it's too late. Guess what, it's too late, we are past the point of reset.
I digressed, but I'm a bit pissed off and can't stay rational. Overthrowing our government won't bring any of those kids back but Rene is 100% right. This will never end until we talk about the real problem and quit allowing our government to distract us with control measures.
Thanks for reading
END RANT.
I find it thoroughly hypocritical that so many of my fellow citizens are so concerned about the "right to life" of the unborn, yet care nothing about preserving the right to life of the living.
Somehow, my "right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" ends at the right for others to own a gun.
In Texas, it was fully legal for this young person to buy two semi-automatic assault rifles on his 18th birthday.. Thus, I can only infer that it was fully legal for him to slaughter a roomful of elementary school students and teachers. So what is the problem? This is what the NRA wanted, right? Sell guns to everybody! And Texas governor Abbott encouraged Texans to buy more guns to catch up with California!
I'm sorry. This is America in the 21st century, it is not Beaver Cleaver Land, it is not the old west. It is not apartheid South Africa, it is not Isreal, it is not Afghanistan. And it is certainly not what I expected for my salad days. I am ashamed to be an American now. We are having a civil war and we won't do anything to stop it.
A final observation. Why don't our Republican senators use some of that NRA blood money they get every year to pay for funerals in Buffalo and Uvalde? Have I pissed enough folks off? I hope so.
The gun nuts . . . sorry, that should be a capital NUTS . . . think only in binary terms -- that either one has complete and utter freedom to buy any weapon they wish, and to shoot anybody they wish, for any reason they wish . . . or the libtards are going to steal their toys.
Whether the shooter's motive was political or purely emotionally driven is irrelevant. A major problem is that there were no controls in place, and too much freedom for him to easily buy these weapons of mass destruction.
When it becomes far easier to buy two rifles and ammo and kill a room full of children than it is to buy a tube of cement to assemble your model airplane, something has gone terribly wrong with the world . . . and it wasn't done by the left wing.
Now, go ahead, take your best shot (see what I did there?), Don. I'm a big boy, now, at 67; I can take it.
A final note: When I was in the 9th grade (we used slate tablets), my civics teacher observed that the Bill of Rights is also a Bill of Responsibility (my freedom of speech ends at your nose). Lest we forget.
A few years ago when the shooting at Margery Stoneman Douglas High School happened my store sold that gun to the kid. I have always said make the requirements harder for people to purchase a weapon. Make them go to a school so they learn about guns. Make them go to a morgue and see what a victim looks like when they've been shot. Make it harder for them to buy the gun.
I grew up with guns. I was taught at a young age to respect what happens when you pull that trigger. This is something that I'm not sure happens with the kids these days. Parental control has been lost.
Guns don't kill people, people kill people. We have the right to bear arms. Just make it harder for us to buy that gun.
Most people didn't lock their doors, either. When we closed on our house the owners apologized that they couldn't find a key - they weren't sure whether they ever had one or not.
Personally have no problem with the morgue suggestion but it wouldn't fly in modern society. When our kids went to school the third grade class went to a small local turkey farm and watched then kill and dress a turkey. You could pick out a chicken or rabbit at the local farmers market and they would kill and butcher it right there (Syracuse NY - 1970's)
Times change.
If that phucking psycho didn't have access to guns, I'd be willing to bet he, instead, would have taken a joy ride with Granny's pick up truck, thru the playground during recess with at minimum the same horrific results. Do we outlaw cars? How about when some drunken slob hops the sidewalk in Manhattan and mows down 30-people before ending up upside down in the middle of 2nd Avenue (as a NYC Paramedic, I WAS THERE). That scumbag walked away while over 15 lay dead on the sidewalk. Its the PEOPLE, not the inanimate objects causing all this mayhem.
I live in a rural area. If someone breaks into my house at 3a.m., I could call the Troopers who would certainly respond, and show up in about 15-20-minutes, long after I'd already be dead, or I can use my Constitutional right to defend myself, and will. For those eager to completely rely on P.D. to keep us safe, this article should be a bit of an eye-opener:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/new-videos-show-police-did-absolutely-nothing-to-stop-the-uvalde-shooter/ar-AAXLddZ?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=727a1789f1dc436b959ae15112341514
https://www.westernjournal.com/video-horrific-bow-arrow-knife-attack-leaves-5-dead-proves-dem-schemes-gun-control-dont-work/?utm_source=Email&utm_medium=newsletter-WJ&utm_campaign=dailyam&utm_content=western-journal&ats_es=50f1425d00db70f7c9134a273ac2b11c
The Great Architect gave us brains to deal with crap like this. We do a great disservice to ignore this gift.
Let's see.... Five dead with a bow and arrows. Twenty-one dead with an assault rifle. You are exactly right there, George. I don't see any difference at all...
"Nice, France.
A Tunisian resident of France, Mohamed Lahouaiej-Bouhlel, used a rented cargo truck to run through a Bastille Day crowd in June 2016, killing 86 people and wounding hundreds more."
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2018/04/23/list-fatal-vehicle-attacks/544603002/
Clearly, we need to ban automatic transmissions, but we're not trying to take away anyone's stick shifts...
Having hateful thoughts and perpetrating violent acts does not make someone “mentally ill.” That is just a convenient term used by people who don’t know the first thing about mental illness, and simply want to divert the argument away from some inconvenient truths. Anyway, mental illness is not unique to this country. Australia has the same rate of depression as the US. How often is there a mass murder there?
You really think your argument vis a vis a bow and arrow is rational and valid? That one mass killing in that way really negates the argument against guns which have been the cause of literally hundreds of times more deaths?
After Australia’s gun buyback program murders and suicides fell dramatically. Why? Why didn’t the mass murderers simply buy knives, bows snd arrows, and poison darts, and continue their rampage?
You know why. It’s because guns embolden people more so than any other kind of weapon. Guns provide small minded people with artificial courage, and satisfy their fantasies of power and control.
Just look at those republican politicians (men AND women) who post their gun-toting photos and Christmas cards on social media. These people are not mentally ill, but they are certainly SICK.
The whole gun culture is sick. And it’s this gun culture that is directly enabling these mass murderers to commit these atrocities. But the gun culture is afraid to admit it because they are oh so afraid of losing their toys.
Sick.
Next time someone compares the USA's "gun homicide" rate to other countries, try something: look at the USA's *non-gun* murder rate, and compare that to other countries *overall* murder rate. As it turns out, even if we magically erased all guns (and the crimes that went with them), we'd still be more than twice as homicidal. It's not a gun problem. It's a violence problem that happens to include guns.
You're confusing cause and effect as well.
Murder Rates
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/murder-rate-by-country
Gun Ownership
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/gun-ownership-by-country
In Vermont in 2018 there were 80 gun deaths - 10 homicides and 70 suicides.
Small state but per capita figures were below mean.
Read the part of my post again about Australia. Murders and suicides plunged; the void in gun violence was NOT filled by using other weapons.