Ruh-roh....

Comments

• 24 Comments sorted by Votes Date Added
• Ted Tyszka

  September 2022 edited September 2022 2 Likes Vote Down

  What is ruh-roh about that? It is a temporary online marketplace for Stampex booth holders, with "up to 100,000 listings."
• George DeKornfeld

  September 2022 0 Likes Vote Down

  'Ruh-roh' as no whether how ya cut it, and albeit temporary, its still online and a dilution in the pool of what's available to collectors on the net, and might end up pulling some buyers, also albeit temporarily, from this site.
  I know its not the end of the world, but still...
  ...especially since going by some previous posts, sales have been sporadic lately.
• GGreg Doll

  September 2022 0 Likes Vote Down

  Ol' Bentley just finished up a record month for August so he can't complain (I can though and often do, right Ted?)
• George DeKornfeld

  September 2022 1 Likes Vote Down

  Mouse did pretty well the last two months compared to prior ones as well. I was going by recent posts read in other threads.
  Here's another ruh-roh. What if SAN is testing the waters with STAMPEX and has ideas about doing this with many international and even national shows, in effect opening their own marketplace? A little healthy competition is clearly a good thing, but still...
• GGreg Doll

  September 2022 0 Likes Vote Down

  I don't ever mind competition. That's what makes the world go 'round.
• HHenry Brooks

  September 2022 edited September 2022 0 Likes Vote Down

  I'm not certain it is going to have any impact. The 100,000 listings are a very small percentage of the dealer's total stock at the show. The internet listings stock has to be separate from the floor stock. Just think - a customer hands you a stack of 102 cards or sales sheets. Even if you have them marked how would you keep track of them if there were two or three other customers wanting to pay up? I've done dozens of three day shows - on a busy day you have no idea of how much you've sold until the end of the day. On a slow day you want to pack up at noon.
  
  In this case I think the bark is worse than the bite.
  
• George DeKornfeld

  September 2022 0 Likes Vote Down

  It may be, and I hope that's the case. On the other hand, I've attended several WSP shows where dealers were eliminating online stock as items were being sold, using a tablet or a laptop, all items having an inventory number for expediency. If there were a lot of customers, the dealers simply took note of the numbers and entered them when the rush ended (one busy dealer spread out the 102 cards so just the numbers were exposed and photographed them for later). An item being sold in more than one place at once, although possible (and I have little doubt mistakes happened), are as likely as having an item sell here and on eBay at the same time. I've never had it happen, and I've been selling on both venues for many years. I suppose their online stock might have had a 'subject to prior sale' disclaimer just like in the old days of mimeographed lists.
  
  
• HHenry Brooks

  September 2022 edited September 2022 0 Likes Vote Down

  Hmm, they are advertising 80+ dealers. 100000 stamps works out to 1250 per dealer - about 1- 1/2 red boxes. If I recall I had around a dozen red boxes, 16-20 small counter books and 6 to 8 long cover boxes (12 to 16 photo boxes) out front plus a couple of bankers boxes of unsorted on the back table for dealers to poke through.
  
  Draw your own conclusions but 100,000 stamps is not a lot. Doing shows is a lot less time consuming but more expensive than internet listing.
• Scott Payton

  September 2022 1 Likes Vote Down

  Or, you can think of it with abundance mentality instead of scarcity mentality, and the broader availability increases the probability of both increasing the collectors in the market, as well as encouraging existing collectors who may have "fallen to the wayside" to pick it up again. I'm seeing an awful lot of that at the moment.
  Demand for good material is stronger than ever. Moving it online makes it available to more people, which means you have more buyers, and if it brings the "Show only" buyers to the online market, then that is good for everyone...
  The important thing is that CREDIBLE supply sources are emerging, and that is what should scare the unscrupulous "sellers".
  I'd be more in favor of requiring some kind of "Code of Conduct" or "Code of Ethics" from every seller, almost like having a real estate license, rather than the loads and loads of garbage that we see from online "sellers".
  
• GGreg Doll

  September 2022 1 Likes Vote Down

  Scott....do you mean something like the IPDA maybe? https://www.ipdastamps.com/
• George DeKornfeld

  September 2022 0 Likes Vote Down

  In a circumspect way, you make my point. The credible supply sources may end up attracting the bulk of buyers, possibly pulling them off of sites that allow "loads and loads of garbage."
  In terms of 'Code of Conduct,' ASDA members can already display their logos while, with the inclusion of the APS Store here, APS members will be able to display their badges as well. A good start.
• Ted Tyszka

  September 2022 1 Likes Vote Down

  I see lots of dealers claiming APS and ASDA membership who would not pass the IPDA "entrance exam."
• Scott Payton

  September 2022 0 Likes Vote Down

  Yes, there are organizations like IPDA, APS, ASDA (of which we are members of all), but the SALES venues don't require this. So all the elements exist, but they are "voluntary". And many buyers don't realize that some of the "Biggest" sellers on many of these platforms do not abide by any such means.
  I'm simply saying it would be nice if a site actually required this. The only one I'm aware of that has such a high standard is Siegel, and they review all their material, but that's a different kettle of fish all together.
• GGreg Doll

  September 2022 0 Likes Vote Down

  MUCH different animal.
  
  But your comment, Scott, raises the question...Could it be possible for customers to filter by dealer accreditation status? Meaning, filter on IPDA or APS Dealer Member or ASDA Members or others. Interesting question eh?
  
  I can't see HipStamp requiring this but I can definitely see a filter created to search for such membership status.
• MMichael Duehr

  September 2022 edited September 2022 0 Likes Vote Down

  Greg,
  
  Slight problem with that. How many of the numerous associations would be allowed, just in the US alone? You have the national , regional, state and then specialized associations. Which International associations would be included? How many members depending on the focus of the association which ones are are viable and which ones actually are going to ENFORCE their policies?
  
  And who is going to take the time and expense and pay for it to verify that the dealer is actually a member in good
  standing? (Never mind that many of the associations there are some that very few people who have ever heard of them in the first place.
• GGreg Doll

  September 2022 0 Likes Vote Down

  Oh I'm really just throwing it out there for honest debate, I really, at first blush, don't see a big problem or even a slight problem with it. The dealer, in the case of HipStamp, adds their membership status really for any association, local to international, and HS can set a filter for any of them based on the dealers reported membership.
  
  Let's say a dealer who has a store hosted by HipStamp is a member of the MSDA (Martian Stamp Dealers Association) for example. He/She/It adds that mnemonic to a field in their HS profile. HS adds that mnemonic to a dealer search field just like one can search for a country or condition...that sort of thing. HS doesn't have to know or even care about whether the dealer who claims membership is actually current. Those who falsify their membership status in any given association will be, I would expect, be quickly called out and discovered and likely face issues with said claimed association.
  
  Just food for thought.
• MMichael Duehr

  September 2022 0 Likes Vote Down

  Greg,
  
  I don't doubt that it's possible for a site like Hipstamp to build it, but how many sellers are willing to PAY for the added expense to have them build it? With the number of organizations how many man hours is it going to take to look them all up to get the mnemonic for all of them? If the site is only going to allow certain ones which ones and does the seller have to belong to one of those organizations? How happy were a number of sellers with the last fee increase on the store subscription?
  
  Second of all to have a site do what Scott is suggesting would require either the site itself to micromanage the sellers or to have some other organization to oversee them as they don't always agree on certain requirements. How would just adding a search function and mnemonic change it from what Scott is suggesting? No organization is going to really thing different than what they do now UNLESS they have the authority to oversee the site itself, the customer is still going to have to write the organization and file a complaint about that seller, and then go through their enforcement on what to do about that seller.
  
  Now unless a seller is selling stolen goods, selling frauds, or dealing with unethical behavior, who is to say what is garbage and what is not? Very few people ever define what they mean by it, are they talking about common material that is ripped torn and shredded and are selling it at half cat, are they talking about the so called wall paper Trucial states, are they talking about low value material, Cinderella material, or are they talking about about anything issued post 1960, or anything outside the classical period?
  
  
• Scott Payton

  September 2022 0 Likes Vote Down

  Well, my definition of garbage is multifaceted, yes. But, it essentially boils down to far exceeding a reasonable value for the material offered, AND that material must be accurately ID'd (even if there is no catalogue for it), and more importantly ACCUREATLY described. That includes descriptions can't be "What you see is what you get". If you want to sell damaged material, no problem. But describe it accurately and price it reasonably. Also no "Vintage" stamp listings of 25c stamps for $25,000 (or other outrageous amounts).
  Common sense stuff actually, but when you have "Sellers" that are happy to rip the unsuspecting off, that's an entirely different matter.
  And I don't think it needs to include "All the associations". Most of these especially at "local" levels aren't "Certifiers" of dealers. So there is no need for all the micro stuff. I have no issue with any material being sold by anyone, so long as that material is described for what it is. And if it's going to be offered at a specific selling price, then it's priced accordingly. Of course there is a lot of material that regularly sells "above CV" and this is fine too. But not 30x or 100x CV... that's just looking to rip people off.
• MMichael Duehr

  September 2022 2 Likes Vote Down

  Just a quick question for you on this point, if the seller is listing all the pertinent information in the title, depending on the type of material that they are listing, how is this statement a bad thing "What you see is what you get" , which implies that the item you are going to receive is the actual scanned item as opposed to a stock scan. And how is that any worse than a seller that just uses their title as the description depending on the material they are listing? How much more of a description do you need for lower value items, if it's already included in the title?
  
  
• MMichael Duehr

  September 2022 0 Likes Vote Down

  Scott,
  
  Wouldn't it be better if Hipstamp were to do a prescreening of a new seller before they can list an item? Especially on these 2 items
  
  Also no "Vintage" stamp listings of 25c stamps for $25,000 (or other outrageous amounts).
  
  But not 30x or 100x CV... that's just looking to rip people off.
  
  Generally speaking most of those are coming from outside of Hipstamp to begin with. I don't think it would be that hard to have a newer seller submit 10 test listings that Hipstamp could look at and see if they meet their standards, and if so those listings then those listings could live at that point or if not they could explain it to the seller and have them fix the listings or deny that seller the right to list on Hipstamp. And I think this would be a better idea than having to deal with it after the fact.
  
• Scott Payton

  September 2022 0 Likes Vote Down

  I get that there are complications (and nothing is perfect) in implementation. But simply because we can't have a "perfect" system, doesn't mean we shouldn't strive for continuous improvement. Implement what can be implemented easily... Allow sellers to provide their "association membership number", and once verified, those sellers could be easily identified with respective marks/IDs, so buyers could easily see who has at least some credibility versus "independent clowns", who have no interest in actually serving the philatelic community.
• GGreg Doll

  September 2022 0 Likes Vote Down

  Michael,
  
  I am one who tends to look for ways something CAN be done rather than how or why it CAN'T or SHOULDN'T be done (if it is a good thing to do of course). In this case, it may involve a very simple addition of a field in the dealer's profile where they can list the dealer organization affiliations they are members of. If a customer can search by "recently listed" or "price high to low", they should be able to search by almost any other criteria. It really doesn't matter what the dealer enters in that field for their store. It could be the Suburban Southwest Fink Texas Stamp Dealers Association (SSWFTSDA) or the aforementioned MSDA. Noone at HS needs to monitor each dealers actual status with their stated associations. It wouldn't cost anyone anything more to implement this. And HS does not have to "look up" each dealer association's mnemonic. I just did a search of stores using "ASDA" and found 388 items with "ASDA" in their title. Granted, the items that came up were mostly ASDA related show stamps and labels, but it the same effect.
  
  As for dealers who claim associations they are not actually a member of or are current with, that is an issue that should be left to those associations for action. In the case of the APS Dealer Membership, anyone can go to the APS website and search for and confirm current member dealers. Many, if not most, of the other dealer associations do the same thing. I predict it would be acutely evident if some shoddy shyster of a dealer claims ASDA membership just from a quick glance at their store and its presentation.
  
  This is not rocket science here and does not require a lot of overthinking.
  
  Now back to my hunt for that elusive Martian Post C3a!!!!
  
  Greg
• MMichael Duehr

  September 2022 0 Likes Vote Down

  Greg,
  
  I think we are talking about apples and oranges here.
  
  I am talking about the fact if Hipstamp were to require membership in an association of some some sort. That opens a whole host of other issues that would need to be addressed. The minute they would require it means they would have to verify it. That puts the onus on Hipstamp to follow through on it. Otherwise it's pointless for them to require it. That's part of what would raise the cost.
  
  Now it seems to that what you are talking about is a different story. Did you realize that Hipstamp gives every store an about page where you can add what ever associations that you are a member of. Granted it's not in your face, but you do have a place available where you can list them. I will grant you that it's not ideal for what you're talking about.
• GGreg Doll

  September 2022 0 Likes Vote Down

  Yup, you are correct. I absolutely do not think that HS requiring any kind of association is a good idea. I wasn't ever talking about requiring this of dealers.
  
  Yes, I am aware of the "About" page and utilize it myself to that effect. It is not, however, searchable to my knowledge. THAT is what I'm talking about. A simple way for a customer to search HS dealers for their association membership if they want to. Maybe it's something that does not matter to many or even most. But for some it might. And it would be easy to implement.