Country / Catalog Number Search Discussion

Mark Rosenberg

This discussion was created from comments split from: Where are the buyers?.

Ralph Anavy

I still buy on Bidstart and elsewhere, but I have yet to buy on Hipstamp. Alas, I find the same flaw in the search capability here as in Bidstart (and elsewhere). There is no real ability to sort on cat number (or year) without getting a lot of junk in the sort results, so honestly there is no real incentive for me to move here.
I wish, as Mark is supposedly designing a whole new software dedicated to STAMPS, that he would finally address this fatal flaw. Otherwise, I find little incentive to come here, yet...as the full capabilities are not up yet, and the basic flaw in the search engine is still there.
Above all, for me, I have got to be able to sort on cat numbers (or year), without getting all the rest of the JUNK in the sort results. Hope it is in the works, and it would indeed be a breakthrough after a long long wait. This would a game changer, and reason enough to camp here exclusively rather than just glance at the stores (and painfully work through the search results) looking for a match..then giving up.
There is no reason why ref numbers, prices, abbreviated cat ranges, truncated numbers, number of items, etc, etc.....should continue to appear in the search results if you just do a basic sort on cat number (or year). These must be their own search fields!
And while there are many catalogs, the basic and fundamental search on catalog number, (or year) is what collectors go by, and what they need here.

Mark Rosenberg

Hi Ralph,

On HipStamp - we actually do have specific fields for sellers to fill in for both the Country and Catalog Number - which is a big change from bidStart. This is the information we use when you sort by Country / Catalog Number. It's also the information we use to search when you type in a Country and Catalog Number into the search bar.

That being said, at the moment we have many items which are imported from bidStart and ebay - where this feature does not exist. As such, we do automatically extract the Country and Catalog Number from these listings. In general, this works very well, but we're always working to improve this. However, we tend to have more issues with very low Catalog Numbers, such as numbers 1-10. Though even with those numbers it works quite well.

For example, try searching for "United States #1" on HipStamp:
https://www.hipstamp.com/browse/?keywords=United+States+#1&sort=catalog
(18 Results - 14 out of 18 being correct)

Compared to bidStart where if you search for "United States #1":
http://www.bidstart.com/search_results.php?keywords=United+States+#1&category=1
(22,000+ results - ~14 out of 22,000+ being correct)

So in general you should see significant improvements over bidStart in searching and sorting by Country / Catalog Number. If you're running into any particular issues that stand out, would you mind sharing exactly what you're searching for? That would be helpful in ensuring you're seeing the quality results you expect.

Michael Duehr

Mark,

I think part of the problem is try typing 1942 into the search bar and then go into country/catalog number. The search is picking up BOTH the cat numbers and the year if the year issued was typed into the title. The first page and half are all stamps issued by Aden during 1942.

John Coles

Great example Mark

Michael Duehr

Here is the search I tried

https://www.hipstamp.com/search?keywords=1942&parent_id=0

Ralph Anavy

Thanks Mark. Yes I am aware of the problem of backward compatibility, and you do have to get the older material to import and post seamlessly here first.

But I would really like dedicated sort field that singles out year, and that singles out cat number, as soon as it is possible.. Add them to the existing sorts of "Best Match" or "by price..low to high...", or recently listed, or etc...
It can be aimed at future listings rather than force fit what clearly was not set up this way in the past, as long as it is set up right.

I often do range cat search such as, for example" #1 to # 50 and you cannot imagine how much junk they still yield....now I know that low numbers yield more junk, but you also get this problem due to people abbreviating numbers..such as "#317-20", "J120-21", "C 14 to C44", "year 1950-55" etc...and nothing short of a dedicated field for cat number (and one for Years) will ever resolve the multitude of variations our creative sellers will come up with to save themselves a few key strokes!

I am really looking forward to the improved searches in the future, and I know you have higher priorities and your hands full in the immediate time frame. Best of luck!

I will have other suggestion I am sure, and I am looking forward to shifting all my purchases to Hipstamp, in the not too distant future.

Michael Duehr

Ralph,

Mark did incorporate the cat number and the year fields into the listing form on Hipstamp. (Now the sellers have to learn to use them instead of into the title)

Ralph Anavy

Thanks Michael. I think the problem is due to the fact that old listings did not have them, so these sorts are not effective yet. Hopefully sellers will list in the future taking advantage of it, or even (I can dream on?) relist older material with the added fields....(which when they reprice material would be a nice enhancement to provide).
I know it will take time.

Michael Duehr

I like having both of those fields as they will help clean up the listings,(And some of my own as I too used the year date when listing FDC's which was need on places like Ebay when selling them overseas) It will in the long term help both the buyers and sellers. Especially when the year date comes out of the title because that should cut down the number of items that are not cat number 1942 etc. The buyers can't buy it if they can't find it and the sellers can't sell either if the buyer can't find it or gets too frustrated trying to find the items.

Dennis Jorgensen

As I am listing most of my store items at BS and then having them sync to Hipstamp I will have to put in a year of issue, if known, so that non Scott buyers can figure out what I am offering to them. I appreciate what the buyers are saying about the search function and how the year in the title can be confusing but at the moment for me its a necessity. When Hipstamp is fully running I will start using the year field in the Hipstamp listing form. At the moment I can list at BS almost blindfolded, and I am not really comfortable with the Hipstamp listing form. I do like the Delcampe form where everything is on one page - less time lost moving from page to page. Feebay also has most of the listing on one page but they are always changing requirements.

Rod Tilyard

Regarding sorting, this problem is being understated. Sort is totally skewed to Scott numbers and so other Catalogue numbers are relegated to the back of the sort results. As a seller using SG numbers I do think chances of selling are very much diminished because of this. I would like to see a selection to sort by title, this would at least result in a level playing field. Likewise, for buyers who are only comfortable with SG numbers, there could also be a selection to sort on SG numbers, or a user account setting which set catalogue preference (Sc or SG first).

James Shaffer

Where are the buyers? Maybe they just don't know about HipStamp yet. I stumbled onto it earlier this year, I think from an email I received, and it looked like it would be a good place to fill some inexpensive holes in my collection - but before I could sign up the legal troubles put it offline for some months. So it may be just normal startup taking some time to get off the ground --

Dennis Jorgensen

For Rod down under - I guessing that the majority of the customer base of Hipstamp is North American, ie - they use Scott numbers and if Mark wants to make some money he has to do things with that in mind. As time goes on the search function will probably be improved but lets give Mark some time. I have had more communication from MR & Hipstamp since the August 1 takeover than in the past year from the late unlamented SGM.

Rod Tilyard

Dennis, I understand that HipStamp is a US niche market, just pointing out some simple solutions that will help with world domination

Ralph Anavy

A category number is a category number. If you sort by SC or SG or YT makes no difference, the stamps will be picked and appear in sorted fashion. If you add SC, SG or YT to the search field you will weed out the other catalogs. There is not even the need to add a catalog type to your information...most buyers will quickly catch on to the system a seller will be using. I often sort on multiple catalogs by numbers to get what I need. The key to me is a list sorted by catalog number that eliminates all the junk that currently gets picked up. It is no problem if your results are just a few items to look at, but if you sort on range fields, and get hundreds of hits...most of which are wrong, it does make a difference...even more so since the current default page lists 48 items, so more clicks, more work. Someone else said it in another context (listing)...having all results on one page makes a difference. I miss the default 200 item sort page display!

Ralph Anavy

Curious why coins are part of the sort results? Hipstampsandcoins? It sure adds confusion to the lower number sorts.

Michael Duehr

Ralph,

At the bottom of the page is a box that says items per page. You can change it to show 96 listings at a time.

Ralph Anavy

Yes Michael..I usually set it at 96. But it is one more click..and I do miss the 200 items you could set it on BS..although there too the default was set at 50...so more clicks. Not sure why the number is set so low? software and computer limitations? I also know that on BS the shopping cart takes such a long time to load and access, when you are signed in, that it tests ones patience. I have taken the habit of adding to it before I log in, then saving all after logging in. Time is an element buyers are aware off, when they sit and watch a wheel turn and turn. So maybe the 48 is a hardware/software compromise..but i like 200....and this may be off the thread topic.

Michael Duehr

I wasn't sure if you had seen that or not. And that is part of the problem with looking at 3,000 plus listings that are not actually the items one is looking for.

Rod Tilyard

Hi Ralph, regarding "If you add SC, SG or YT to the search field you will weed out the other catalogs". Unfortunately that is not correct. Entering these in the search field only returns a few matches where there is a space in the description after the SG or SC or YT. So 99% of items are missing from this search.

Michael Duehr

Rod,

I think I know WHY they are not showing up. It has to do with Scott's numbering system. Scott's uses letters as cat numbers for back of the book items,

Examples RW's are duck stamps

U's are postal stationary
UZ are Official postal stationary
UC are Airmail postal cards

I am willing to bet when you use the space between the SG and the number it's reading it as a SCOTT's cat number and NOT an SG number. Put the space in and it is set to pick up the SG number.

Rod Tilyard

Hi Michael, except that is counter to how Mark wants catalogue numbers set up. This is the help hint for entering catalogue numbers from Listings Edit: "With the exception of Scott Catalog Numbers, please prefix by Catalog abbreviation, ie: SG45, Mi710, YT15, etc." That is, without any space between the catalogue prefix and the number.

I believe it's because search works on full words only. For example, if a stamp has Christmas in the title, searching using Christ will get no matches.

Michael Duehr

Rod

Since that is the case did you try the search without the space between SG and the number? (Your items do show up that way if you type in SG638 or whatever in the search bar) I went through a number of your items in your store and most are showing as the first listing in the search.

Rod Tilyard

Hi Michael, yes that's correct, for a specific number (searching on a full word). However it's not currently possible to limit search results to a specific catalogue such as SG by entering the catalogue prefix in the search field, which was the misconception mentioned earlier.

Michael Duehr

Rod,

Question for you,How many sellers in Hipstamp do you think are using the SG cat? And of those sellers how many items do you think they have listed?

Ralph Anavy

It may be a mistake to set up the cat type and number without the space between the two.
I think the catalog type and catalog number are two distinct separate fields. Then sorting on "SG (space) Number" will act as an AND function, ie SG and that cat number. Hopefully not an OR function.
Alternatively sorting on just the number will yield all catalogs with that number...as long as the number is put in a correct dedicated cat number field and not in the title. Not sure how it is set up now, but linking the two as Rod mentions it is done may yield to complications.

Rod Tilyard

Michael, honestly cannot fully answer your question, and not sure of your point. Mark has mentioned on another post that there are several international sellers on HipStamp now, and trying to read between many of his comments, does want HipStamp to be more than a home just for the US market. I'm approaching 4,000 listings and will be happy to grow that to 50,000 plus as the site becomes less US centric.

Peter Geldreich

For Booklet and Postal Stationery collectors Scott is inadequate since aside from US booklets and some Great Britain booklets there usually is no booklet or Postal stationery number provided. To provide a meaningful listing the SG, Mi and Unitrade catalogue numbers need to be listed. There is no Scott choice in most of these cases.

Mark Rosenberg

Could someone provide an example of what they're referring to with regards to a space between the Catalog prefix and the Catalog number? This should not make any difference, and is not intended to.

For example, the following searches all provide the exact same results:

"Great Britain SG1066"
https://www.hipstamp.com/search?keywords=Great+Britain+SG1066&parent_id=0

"Great Britain SG 1066"
https://www.hipstamp.com/search?keywords=Great+Britain+SG+1066&parent_id=0

"Great Britain SG#1066"
https://www.hipstamp.com/search?keywords=Great+Britain+SG#1066&parent_id=0

As long as you enter a Country and Catalog Number, with or without a prefix, and with or without space you should see the same results.

Michael Duehr

Rod,

The thing is when I do the search using either the space or NO space between the SG and the number I see listing that have the space in the title and ones without the space in the title. If I am seeing it both ways then others should be also. You are the one insisting that 99% of the listings go missing in that search. If so then you should be able to show it.

Of course Mark wants it to be more then a US market. (I do too as I had a really good overseas market on Ebay) And yes there are a number of non US sellers,but most of them are Canadian and most of them use either Unitrade or Scott's cat. (Unitrade uses the Scott's cat numbers) A number of the overseas sellers including the larger ones don't use cat numbers at all. Some use other cats. So how many of the listings left are using SG at the moment? It's not meant as a put down but to look at in reality. So in reality would a good guess be about 4-5% of the listings are using SG
numbers? If so then do a search using just SG and it shows a bit shy of 15,000 listings and going by the the item numbers on Hipstamp it's at about 3,300,000 so that ends up being between 4-5 % which is probably about right at this time. Which would make sense right now as Hipstart is mostly North American centric. It seems you are spending a lot of time over something that is most likely a non issue.