there comes a time when I believe we need to speak up.. will you join me..
There comes a time when I believe we need to speak up, will you join me in the interests of stamp collectors, the genuine and quality sellers on this marketplace and the hobby?
I have sent the following to Support in the hope some action will be taken to raise standards and have sellers comply with the Hipstamp Terms and Condition. Please support me if you support this wonderful hobby Thank you.
I am a big fan of Hipstamp. I am a serious seller as can be seen by my feedback of over 51,000 positives.
I believe in honesty and integrity and to give the stamp collector a genuine collecting experience.
Hipstamp standards are however slowly being eroded by the likes of unscrupulous sellers. Sellers who by the way they present material for sale or auction show they care nothing about the well being of the collector but only about their own ability to take advantage of the unsuspecting and, I would suggest, the less experienced collector.
There are now far too many sellers in this category and I believe this is undermining the credibility of the Marketplace.
The Hipstamp Safety and Trust team, it appears all too often, is just not doing their job.
The Hipstamp Terms and Conditions are blatantly being ignored and, let's be honest here, abused by far too many sellers.
(I sent one example - just one - see image there are many more as I am sure people know and thankfully many of you report and get the sellers removed)
Please can you do something to raise the quality of the marketplace in the interests of Hipstamp, the quality sellers you have using your marketplace and especially in the best interests of collectors.
It is all too easy to say Buyer beware and use that as an excuse, but we should all be doing something to make the collectors experiences a genuine experience not one where they have to question are they being tricked or deceived.
It is all to easy to say well a buyer would never buy from sellers behaving in this way or that way but sadly they do and we will never know what the longer term implications are.
A distrust of stamp dealers is not an unlikely outcome, especially as I predict sellers will be extremely upset when they find their collections in years to come are worth next to nothing because they have bought from the unscrupulous sellers who use the unacceptable practices you are supporting by not enforcing the Terms and Conditions you have set.
Please take action to raise the standards of this marketplace.
Michael Dodd, General Secretary of the Internet Philatelic Dealers Association, Member APS, GBPS and various respectable and responsible philatelic organisations. Owner of cddstamps.com and cddstamps online store at Hipstamp
I have sent the following to Support in the hope some action will be taken to raise standards and have sellers comply with the Hipstamp Terms and Condition. Please support me if you support this wonderful hobby Thank you.
I am a big fan of Hipstamp. I am a serious seller as can be seen by my feedback of over 51,000 positives.
I believe in honesty and integrity and to give the stamp collector a genuine collecting experience.
Hipstamp standards are however slowly being eroded by the likes of unscrupulous sellers. Sellers who by the way they present material for sale or auction show they care nothing about the well being of the collector but only about their own ability to take advantage of the unsuspecting and, I would suggest, the less experienced collector.
There are now far too many sellers in this category and I believe this is undermining the credibility of the Marketplace.
The Hipstamp Safety and Trust team, it appears all too often, is just not doing their job.
The Hipstamp Terms and Conditions are blatantly being ignored and, let's be honest here, abused by far too many sellers.
(I sent one example - just one - see image there are many more as I am sure people know and thankfully many of you report and get the sellers removed)
Please can you do something to raise the quality of the marketplace in the interests of Hipstamp, the quality sellers you have using your marketplace and especially in the best interests of collectors.
It is all too easy to say Buyer beware and use that as an excuse, but we should all be doing something to make the collectors experiences a genuine experience not one where they have to question are they being tricked or deceived.
It is all to easy to say well a buyer would never buy from sellers behaving in this way or that way but sadly they do and we will never know what the longer term implications are.
A distrust of stamp dealers is not an unlikely outcome, especially as I predict sellers will be extremely upset when they find their collections in years to come are worth next to nothing because they have bought from the unscrupulous sellers who use the unacceptable practices you are supporting by not enforcing the Terms and Conditions you have set.
Please take action to raise the standards of this marketplace.
Michael Dodd, General Secretary of the Internet Philatelic Dealers Association, Member APS, GBPS and various respectable and responsible philatelic organisations. Owner of cddstamps.com and cddstamps online store at Hipstamp
Comments
Also be aware a lot of pictures do not show up and do not have that message replacing the lack of no pictures. I suspect a large percentage of these are a failure of the pictures to load up during an attempted Ebay Sync or even a normal HS operating failure?. I noticed this is more common with lots that have more than one picture- though zero of the pictures appear to be showing up. the site has a lot of listings with no pictures and "if" HS is responsible for most of this problem, as i suspect.. they can hardly remove the lots. :-) the overall results with no solution (in my Opinion) is a site with a few zillion no picture listings. some these problems started well before the SG fiasco. So, even though the message picture you showed is rude, lazy, unprofessional (my opinion) i am thinking it probably is better than no message and no pictures that are resulting in hours of useless contact to buy a lot - as i just went through with a seller. it did result in a purchase and it clearly was not the seller's fault that no pictures existed. it was an Ebay sync issue. again.
One solution is to raise the fees until most these listings are removed. :-) oh wait they already did that.
"unscrupulous sellers. Sellers who by the way they present material for sale or auction show they care nothing about the well being of the collector but only about their own ability to take advantage of the unsuspecting and, I would suggest, the less experienced collector."
...and the shown image. What is unscrupulous here? 30 day no questions asked return policy and an explanation that low price is driven by not taking an actual scan of the item(time is money no?). If a buyer is not good with that they can buy from somebody who scans each item. Was there something wrong with the description? Something else?
Unscrupulous IMHO is miscatalogued, undisclosed flaws, bait and switch between shown image and what is delivered, listing material at ridiculous prices and hoping to snare an uninformed collector, selling replicas as original material, etc...
Is it the policy of the IPDA that every stamp must have an uploaded image... even one that has a fair value of say 25 cents?
Thanks
Bob
Newer store, granted...likely no knowledge of philately even it its most basic level. But still, if one has no knowledge of the business or the product one is selling, one should probably not be in the business in the first place. There are maybe as many buyers out there with rudimentary knowledge as sellers, so it is possible that someone can be had by these offerings very easily.
And yes, Robert, it is the policy of the IPDA that every stamp have an image associated with the listing and it is also the policy of HipStamp.
Gunner, load sabot.
Sabot up.
Gunner, send sabot.
Sabot on the way...
I think you are conflating providing an opportunity for dealers to provide low priced, quality, common material to collectors with unscrupulous actions. Now if this is an image that is associated with an uncommon item than I would concede that an image should be provided. And of course, the buyer could always request an image of the listed item. So again, please provide the details that show why this particular listing is unscrupulous. That is a big charge.
There are many dealers ... ASDA or APS members in good standing who produce price lists, websites and other offerings that do not have an exact image of every item advertisied. In certain cases they might use stock images like the Scott catalog. Is the ISDA against this?? Does the ISDA dictate a generous return policy provided by the seller you accuse of being unscrupulous?
If your axe is that every low priced stamp MUST have an exact image then you are going to force out many high quality providers who use stock images(I am in this camp 21k+ feedbacks 100% positive) to provide inexpensive material to new and many repeat buyers. Hardly unscrupulous.
Bob
Regarding images...here are the HipStamp Product Listing - Image Policies. Pretty clear to me that many sellers do not or cannot follow them. Many do but enough habitually don't that one would think that HipStamp would do something about it.
Product Listing - Image Policies
-Images are one of the most important parts of your listing because they allow potential buyers to see the item's exact condition, and help them decide whether to bid or buy. As a result, when you create a product listing, you must include at least one photo that is 250 pixels on the longest side, but we recommend including more to help increase your chances of a successful sale.
-Additionally, when listing an image in a product listing with us, you agree to the following:
-Images must accurately represent the item.
-Images may only feature the specific item for sale.
-Images must not include any borders.
-Images must not include any added text, artwork or marketing material.
-Images must not include any watermarks of any type.
-Images must be oriented correctly.
-Images must be cropped such that the product fills at least 75% of the image.
-Placeholder images, and images used to convey messages are not allowed.
-By listing a product image, it is assumed that the image is of the exact item the buyer will receive. If the image is only meant to serve as an example (ie: a “stock photo”), this must be explicitly and clearly stated at the top of the description.
-For stamps and postcards, if a stock photo is used, it must show either an unused or used depiction of the product which corresponds to the condition of the product listing.
-Any image used as a stock photo may only be used on at most one product listing. This includes the physical item depicted in the image (ie: it is not permissible to crop or otherwise alter an image of a stock photo to create a “different” stock photo).
As far IPDA goes, we have guidelines for membership in the organization but have nothing to do with HipStamp's policies other than maybe advocating for the enforcement of their own which actually correlate fairly well with IPDA's regarding listings.
In terms of the other I could see laziness but nothing unscrupulous and will just have to take your word that the item was "overpriced".
In terms of the listing photo, it would be better to provide a stock or catalog image rather than a boilerplate graphic. I think it is totally fair game to use a stock or catalog image for lower priced material as it "accurately represents the item"(note it doesn't say EXACTLY and an honest seller will describe any variations) and "feature the specific item for sale"(If I am offering an UR F-VF NH plate block of 1033 then my stock image is for that specific item, namely a 1033 plate block).
I think this final statement makes the muddled rules by HIP a bit clearer...
"-By listing a product image, it is assumed that the image is of the exact item the buyer will receive. If the image is only meant to serve as an example (ie: a “stock photo”), this must be explicitly and clearly stated at the top of the description."
So stock or catalog images ARE ACCEPTABLE and not unscrupulous as long as it is noted that the image is stock. I spent hours creating stock images so that I could offer my subset of collectors the service that many are seeking.... well priced material, accurately described and in the large combination of numbers and positions that exist.... 1000's in some cases. I personally wouldn't have the gall to tell a collector to go look it up on the internet. The seller initially mentioned? Lazy... perhaps... cheeky.... sure.... unscrupulous... NO. Unscrupulous sellers offer NO returns.
In terms of the IPDA, you write "we have guidelines for membership in the organization but have nothing to do with HipStamp's policies other than maybe advocating for the enforcement of their own which actually correlate fairly well with IPDA's regarding listings."
So are IPDA's guidelines more or less stringent than those listed by Hipstamp? Can you comment specifically on what the stated image and return policies of the IPDA are?
Thanks
Bob
https://www.ipdastamps.com/internet-listing-and-selling-guidelines/
Shouldn't they have a return policy when you have larger and better known dealers associations that do have return policies as part of their code of conduct? Examples for starters are the ASDA (American Stamp Dealers Association) and the PTS (Philatelic Traders Society which is out the UK).
Thanks for the response. I looked up the IPDA website and read the photo policy as well as the code of ethics. The code of ethics seems very reasonable. The selling guidelines less so.
Just curious, does the IPDA discipline or expel members who don't take an exact photo of every stamp offered or who overlap images in a scan? Being that those listing actions would be a violation of the IPDA's stated listing and selling guidelines I would imagine the organization would crack down on such behavior.
Bob
The link gets you to the about page of the ipda site. If you decide to join, tell them Michael Dodd sent you. It is a good organization trying to promote good standards.
https://www.ipdastamps.com/about-us/
Robert Maddox
I hope you're just trolling; you know what the moral of this story is. While I agree that it is a waste of time scanning low value stamps; there are rules, play by them, that is what polite society does. I stopped listing low value stamps as singles. I make small bundles out of them to make it worth the hassle of scanning. In the worst case, if they are all similar enough, scan one and list them as a multiple quantity, it works for me. Although I am now thinking of stopping the multiples and breaking them up as well, because of this discussion.
Putting up a graphic like what Michael found is lazy at best. It says to me that the person using it does not want me as a customer. It says he would rather sell something unseen on the chance the customer will like it, simultaneously increasing the chance of return because they don't. It says if you don't like it, return it, indicating he has no respect for his customer's time.
Seriously, my document camera takes 2 seconds per photo, my scanner takes 15 seconds. It is not that big of a deal. How long does it take to list, then re-list if it comes back? Did you pay the return postage or did the customer? Did you just tell them to keep it then send another or let them keep it and refund it? How much time, energy and money is wasted if the return is triggered, when you could have increased the chances of it not being returned with a photo?
Bottom line, the customer has the right to see what they are buying prior to purchase.
I feel like you are trying very hard to push towards a "gotcha" moment.
Now, with respect to Michael Dodd's OP. I'm not quite sure if the image he included is a real image from a HipStamp seller. I may be wrong and I'm sure he will address that when he wakes up and sees this.
And just by the way, if you are selling a complete set, don't show me a pile of stamps with the high value on top. Show me all the dang stamps. You dealers often seem very generous in your "F-VF" descriptions. And occasionally you leave a stamp out. So. Y'all argue all you want about the guidelines, but show me the damned stamps if you want my money.
I don't want to get into Mr. Dodd's head though. I know him well enough to know that might be a bad idea. But I think his main issue is concerned with the unethical sellers who try to take advantage of folks who may not know any better. And I do not disagree that this can not only cause folks to be ripped off but also can give the quality dealers a bad name. And I hope my distinction between the terms "sellers" and "dealers" is noticed because there is, usually, a big difference between the two.
1) A full refund in 30 days . what if the order does not arrive in 30 days. We don't all live in the USA. This refund statement is you know what when worded as such.
2) stock or catalogue images are NOT acceptable - I might bend on this for MNH brand new issues from some countries because some argue the quality of the printing is so good the stamps are all the same for centering or whatever. Some many argue that, but I still say an image is required if you wish to be taken seriously as a stamp dealer.
3) I have listings without images - but I do not know where they are until someone tells me or I stumble across them. Why they are there? I do not know. The transitions from Bidstart to SG to Hipstamp? Maybe. Yes maybe even eBay sync for some of you. BUT, Every time I list I look through the load and check that the images loaded. There should be no reason I have missing images today. BUT….. I DO NOT LIST with statements to the effect that I don’t have the time to load an image or that I think it a waste of time so trust me I am a stamp dealer. THAT IS WHAT I am talking about.
We need to raise the quality here for the well being of collectors and ourselves as respectable responsible sellers, Not sit back and be quiet and allow it to be lowered for the selfish ends of people that are not serious sellers.
Thank you
I play by the rules. The rules that HIP has laid out. They are laid out in black and white for all to read. I have been ethically selling here for years and have 21k feedbacks, 100% positive. So I must be doing something right. I don't deny you the right to do business as you see fit. Good luck in building up those numbers and I hope your IPDA affiliation is a plus for your business.
Pet peeve of mine....Ad hominem alert!
.... "I hope you're just trolling; you know what the moral of this story is. While I agree that it is a waste of time scanning low value stamps; there are rules, play by them, that is what polite society does."
Polite people don't accuse others of being trolls. That is inherently impolite. Especially when everything I laid out is totally rational, reasonable and supported by site guidelines. I prefer more precise language like "I respectfully disagree". That would earn my respect.
Bob
I respectfully disagree....for example, you have 17 listings for US #1280 plates blocks with the same stock photo.
HipStamp Image Listing Policy "-Any image used as a stock photo may only be used on at most one product listing."