SuperButt - who is it?

I am being harassed by SuperButt - I have reported him to HipCommerce but he continues. He is posting serial $50 offers on my collection of XF Columbians listed at $9,000.00 - he may not like the posted price but this is abusive. Any way to handle him? I know we can't block a buyer. Thanks! Getting certificates on the collection to support the price, if sold individually, even on auction it would go for more than that. I may break it up to get the full value - I just hate to. It was carefully put together by a collector who died of covid.

Comments

  • 23 Comments sorted by Votes Date Added
  • Set a minimum acceptable price. That way you won't see the low ball ones.
  • If you accept offers, you will always get the "superbutts" trying to get something for nothing. Do as Robert says.
  • What type of self-respecting 13 year old calls himself “super butt”? That moniker belongs to a 4 year old who actually thinks it’s funny
  • Wasn't and isn't me! That has to be quite irritating. Although that set sounds really nice! Do you have it listed yet?
  • Vic, I checked your store and it is an impressive lot. Best of luck moving it. I bet there is an interesting story behind this find. Have a great evening.

    Greg (commas not needed here!)
  • Victoria, gorgeous Columbian set all beautifully centered. The 245 might be the best used copy on Hipstamp could sell for a huge premium! Yes get certificates for the better conditioned copies and you should get a good price for them.
  • edited July 2021 0 LikesVote Down
    Hi Victoria, I hope you don't mind my chiming in on this. Yeah, I can't stand the low-ball bottom feeders either. But, I think what he's trying to say (in an very ineloquent way) is the asking on this is too high. I just took a detailed look at the collection, and first I'd like to say kudos for adding in the back pictures. While I don't have them in hand so I couldn't offer a full opinion on them, there is still a lot I can see from the images. I think you will do better to break this collection up for two reasons: 1) It is mixed condition. Most collectors of the Columbian will pick a condition for the entire set. (So all used, or all OG, or all MNH, and usually a desired centering, mostly in the VF range). And 2) Some of the better material is being dragged down by faults in the others. (BTW, you didn't post the back photo for the 2c 231 so I can't comment on it).

    Sadly, only 2 of the stamps are VF (231 and 240). Most are F, but they will "grade" lower to VG (even some of the F/VF's) because of the faults they have. The 230 has multiple creases, the 232 is thinned with hinge and an occlusion, 235 is thinned, the 237 would be F/VF but has 2 blind perfs which would drop it to F, the 238 has corner crease 240 looks to have some gum loss 241 has a nibbled perf at bottom right, the 243 should be F/VF (just bordering on it), but the inked backs tamps make it undesirable, because over time, they will bleed through to the front, and most collectors will avoid this, or at the very least, it drops the value because of the long term issue of ink bleed, and the 244 is either toned or stained (or possible gum soak, which could be a sign of an attempt to redistribute gum).

    The conditions are so mixed, it will be very hard to sell it as a collection, and I don't think you'll like my assessment, but I think the top CV of this lot is closer to $4,250 given the condition. I know there is an emotional element for you with this collection, and that is often the hardest part of being a dealer (like the hardest part of being a parent is knowing when to let your children hurt...), you sometimes have to let go of the sentiment and follow the market. I'm not trying to tell you how to be a dealer. I just don't think you will find a buyer for this collection, and some of the better items are being dragged down by the rest of them.
  • edited July 2021 0 LikesVote Down
    Scott, while I agree with you it is difficult to sell a mixed conditioned set with some faults once the condition of the best stamps are verified she probably can get closer to her price than yours. A very fine used 245 can sell up to $3000 alone but it all depends on condition.
    The mint Columbians also have a wide variety of gum and regum conditions yet the centering on these are really
    nice all together. It is also fascinating to note many of the mint Columbians offered on the site don’t even display the back gum conditions.
  • edited July 2021 0 LikesVote Down
    Sorry, but that 245 is far from VF...
    386

    This is a VF centered used 245. Dual certed and sold for $850. The 245 in her collections' centering is too close to the bottom margin to cert as VF. This will cert at F/VF which is going to grade 70. On top of that she'll pay about $45 for that cert. It will have a CV of $875, but because the grade on the cert will show 70, it will be a tough sell. The best centering is on the 240 and the 231. And centering isn't the only thing in the grading. But the majority of the items in her collection are F centering, and have faults. If you leave this group together, at the price listed, I can guarantee you, it will not sell.

    I'm trying to save Victoria the cost of certs that won't pay off for her in the end.
  • edited July 2021 0 LikesVote Down
    850 for that stamp is a reasonable price. Compare with this one for 2200. Bottom line all depends on condition set is probably best split up for sale.
    https://www.hipstamp.com/listing/malack-245-vf-xf-seldom-seen-with-such-a-lite-cancemore-gu2289/36857797
  • edited July 2021 0 LikesVote Down
    Just found these condition mixed but price seems low. Perhaps you are correct $4000-6000 is the realistic price range. Nevertheless, I hope she finds a good home for these. I would bid on a few if sold individually. Maybe put them to auction with a reserve.
    https://www.hipstamp.com/listing/momen-us-stamps-230-240-1c-50c-columbians-mint-og-h-lot-72435/39001197
  • Andrew, you're pointing out what people are asking for (unreasonably) and they aren't selling. The stamp I show sold for $850 and had certs from PF and PSE. Your second listing, yes, closer to what is reasonable for the 1c to 50c, and most of the condition there are better than what are in Vic's collection. (Sorry Vic, not having a go at you at all. Don't know if you've priced/sold many of these in the past, but they are particularly magnified to some other issues, because the "Columbians" have been a yard stick for US collections for a long time. So they are very popular, but pricing them right is very tricky). I really am just trying to help, and not intrude. But you're getting advice from others that in my opinion, will cost you money, and not get you any closer to selling your lot.

    Let me be clear as well... I'm not saying the "price" Is $4,200. I'm saying that's what their realistic catalog value is. I would expect in this condition, you're more likely to get about 70% of CV for the lot. You can do better (on some) by breaking it up, you'll do worse on others, particularly the used copies.
  • edited July 2021 1 LikesVote Down
    Just saw this one advertised
    https://www.hipstamp.com/giveaways/win/us-245-mint-og/256

    Scott your advice is much welcomed no harm or foul done. The difference of opinion in price is subjective. For example Mystic will sell a used or mint set of Columbians for $5000-14000 so suggesting $2975 is seriously low. From my perspective I purchased my own used set individually and think I paid about $2500 in total but the 241 has a small thin and the 245 is reperforated. Surely these are twice as good in terms of price.
  • Yes, that range is based on the condition, centering and certificates for the lot. I'm not trying to be harsh, but this lot is really not well centered. Even this "mint OG" giveaway you found says it has a retail price of $1,200. That essentially recognizes that stamp as being somewhere between F and F/VF centered. (F OG CV is $925, and F/VF OG CV is $1550).
    I would place the 245 in Victoria's lot at the same grading. (Actually I placed it higher at F/VF making it a CV of $825, assuming there are no other issues with it).

    I would suggest though that the difference of opinion in price is not so subjective, and rather, if you examine the material for all aspects of condition, the prices are pretty tight ranges. That gamut of $5k - $14k demonstrates the difference between an F centered/conditioned group, and an XF centered/conditioned group. That's not subjective. And Mystic, as well as other sellers (all sellers SHOULD) use to apply a market price at time of listing. Those of course fluctuate but the same group won't fluctuate from $5k - $14k in the same year based on centering... you won't see that kind of swing even in 10 years...

    One of the things that's very hard to do as a seller is accept the value of a stamp, when that value is less than we hope for. Of course we don't know how much Victoria paid to acquire the group. If she got it at a great price, then she can make money on it. If she over paid, then she's faced with two options: 1) hang on to it for a long time, hoping that it will increase in value or 2) sell it for cash flow, and take the loss, hopefully gaining in the valuation process and how to assess the next opportunity.
    Option one does not look good actually. The 2015 CV for a 245 Used was $1,200, the 2021 CV for a 245 Used is $1,175. Not a huge drop, but downward trend over the past 6 years. The MNH CV is worse, $10,000 in 2015, $9,500 in 2021. While the XF-Sup (Grade 95) for both is still at $85,000.
    I've been doing this a very long time, in a very disadvantaged market (I'm a US dealer based in Japan... so my access to material at better costs and more frequently is limited), and I have to deal with the added burden of selling to buyers who have to wait longer (shipping) and pay more (shipping). Despite that, I've grooved this area in particular. (In fairness, I rarely even bother to acquire Columbian issues anymore because they are invariably difficult to turn a profit, despite their high appeal and demand, largely due to expectations in condition). If it's not VF and MNH, and 50% of CV, people don't want it. And of course that's contrary to what the cost of acquisition is. As a result, good material is SLOW moving. A cert will only get you full CV on a stamp if it grades VF or better, and for the most part is MNH (at lest in this issue). All that needs to be weighed.
  • edited July 2021 0 LikesVote Down
    Basically we said the same thing I mean she's looking for $7650 for the set, you said $2975 and I am in the middle of those two numbers around $5300. Nobody said selling is easy. I still believe her used 245 is very desirable if the condition checks out. Anyway, we wish you luck ignore those lowball offers as many collectors would be very happy with your beautiful mint Columbians.
  • Can someone post the link to the set ?
  • edited July 2021 2 LikesVote Down
    That’s a pretty set . Very nice . It has lots of emotional appeal … it took me 30 years to slowly accumulate mine . I neither remember nor care now what it cost because I will never sell mine. And recalling how utterly upset the philatelic community was when they issued these , it packs a lot of history. Grateful for those who keep these items alive and in circulation.
  • She's never replied here, so I guess she doesn't like what we have to say. The listing now says the stamps are off for cert... I will bet we never see those.
  • Well she’s not obligated to respond and obviously disagrees with you Scott. The price you indicated is clearly out of tune. Would be interesting to see the Hip Value listed.
  • I am not saying she didn't respond to me. I came late into the conversation. She hasn't responded to anyone.
    This is a hard thing... people see CV's and they want to get that from their material. I've looked at her other listings, and she has a lot she posts as "Regummed?" including in this set. So the suspicions is there, but in particular, images look fine until you hover over them, and then they are grainy, blurry, pixelated images that prevent you from really being able to tell the real quality of the issue. My intention is to help set expectations based on realism. In the description she has several of these noted as VF/XF and XF/Sup... check the illustrated grading chart in Scott, or the PSE Grading Guide, and you'll see very quickly, these are not in that sphere of centering. The best in the lot is the 50c. It MIGHT grade XF, but the left and right margins are off (right is wider than left), and top and bottom are slightly off (bottom larger than top), it's won't grade 95. I always marvel when people have listings like this up for months, and then wonder why no one will buy it. Most of these look to be regums as well but can't be definitive on that due to the grainy scans.
  • Hi Guys! I appreciate all of your feed back on the set. I thought I was getting emails on responses so I did not come in to look. It was a part of an attic stash from an estate sale. This collector was (I never met him) very precise and careful in his collection. It was a lovingly accumulated collection. I have been tempted to break up the set. I had a low price on the stash but went back and paid more to the family once I realized what was here. If I do find the right buyer for a good price I will send them a percentage as well. They had no idea he collected and thought it was a box of junk. It must have been something he worked on when he was younger and possibly inherited himself. These are photos and I did not want to "fix" the photos because I wanted them to be viewed as is and not enhanced. I will look into a minimum bid, but in general those become the actual price. I do come off of prices for offers that are lower than I hoped for but seem reasonable. I think the market sets the price, not me. I try to place prices at just below what I see as sales of similar pieces. I will take into account all of your well thought out feed back. Thanks!
  • edited June 26 0 LikesVote Down
    Well looping back on this almost a year later, I see Vic did get the PF to cert these. Their condition in most cases was far worse than I had assessed from the grainy images, despite it still is listed at $9,400 for the lot, none of the stamps graded above 70, and only 2 were gradable (at 70). Most have thins, tears, perf issues, reperfing, reguming (which for the purposes of CV is at No Gum, as that is what the stamp really is), I see this lot (really, being generous for the condition) having a CV of around $2,690. Now the certs would have run minimums on all of them at $27 bringing the cost for 16 certs to $432. 5 of the stamps certed have CV in line with the cert of less than $20. One cert defeats the stamp (a fake cancel applied to a no gum stamp to hide a face scuff, which really just makes this stamp a filler, but I still gave it a value of $110 as a VG Used stamp...)

    Scott# Condition Grade CV
    230 HR F/VF 9.25
    231 HR - Tear VG 2.5
    232 HR, SP, Th VG 7.5
    233 HR PF 70 3.5
    234 MNH PF 70 92.5
    235a HR, TH F 20
    236 HR F/VF 3.25
    237 NG F/VF 20
    238 NG, CR F 30
    239 HR, TH F 105
    240 NG VF 200
    241 Fake Cancel VG 110
    242 NG, RPL, TH VG 110
    243 DIS OG, TH F 650
    244 NG, TH Faded F 450
    245 Used F/VF 875
    Total CV: $2,688.50

    Note that one of the graded certs has a CV of $3.50. What is the value of a $27 cert for this stamp then?
    I'm not beating up on Vic here, I'm citing exactly the kind of example that I have spoken about on many occasions about paying for and cost of cert. The $460 cost, in my view doesn't justify the certs in this case.

    KEY: HR - Hinge Remnant, TH - Thin, RPL - Reperfed Left, NG - No Gum, DIS OG - Disturbed Original Gum,
    Note: In the "GRADE" column, the two PF 70 grades are of the PF, the other "grading" by condition is based on my assessment of the centering plus condition. The PF, nor PSE will GRADE a stamp that is altered or damaged, hence why none of these other certs have a grade. The person submitting for cert can also request that a grade not be provided on the cert if it's less than their "desired" grade. I'd like to challenge the industry on this actually. If a stamp is ungradable due to condition, it should be so noted on the cert, in the same way that a "WARNING" is placed on the cert for fakery. It's a little interesting they didn't do that for the $1 but then cancel is fake to hide a fault, and not to "add value" due to the fake cancel, as in the case of faked fancy cancels. So I guess that's why that cert doesn't carry such a warning. It's too bad because otherwise this would just be a no-gum stamp with a fault. Instead it is treated as a "Used" and altered stamp.

    This is also to contrast how poor images detract from accurate assessment by perspective buyers, and may even dissuade them from bidding/buying.

    Realistically, I don't think it's really possible to recover the cost of these certs. That of course depends on the original amount paid for the lot, which we don't know. But I think this is a great lesson for buyers. My original (generous) estimate before certs was a CV of around $4k for the lot... that's of course nearly half that now.
    If interested, I would offer $1,100 for the lot, but I'm sure that will be rejected. As a dealer, I wouldn't be able to make anything off of this collection for anything higher for that, and for the right collector around $2k would seem reasonable.
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