1¢ Magenta Anyone??

I see SG is now offering 80000 pieces of the unique thing at a little over a $100....

I'm thinking of taking the plunge; it would the most I've paid for a single stamp.


  • 38 Comments sorted by Votes Date Added
  • You might want to take a look at Stanley Gibbons' history of philatelic "investing."
    Having grown up in London, SG was one of the dealers I cut my philatelic teeth with and love them dearly from a nostalgia perspective (not to mention their incredible British Empire stock), but I personally steer well clear of any of their (for lack of a better word) scams (all IMHO, of course).
  • no thank you.
  • After a few computer issues and with help from showcase, which is handling the sale of 80,000 shares, I am now the proud partial owner of the world's rarest stamp. Whether it goes up or down in value doesn't matter. It is fun owning a part of philatelic history. I have received a printable certificate with a small photo of the stamp, which I will proudly display in
    my study.
  • Any visibility to how many of the 80,000 "shares" they've sold?
  • Scott,

    I would like to know that also.
  • i reminds me of the cereal premiums in the 50's for one square inch of an Alaskan gold mine
  • They've sold over 8,000 shares
  • Human psychology is such a fascinating thing. This type of scheme, while legal, is fraught with many ethical ( and legal) questions. It is done with many "collectibles", but in the true sense, it is just a way to raise personal capital for the real "owner". which is the organization with possession, title and control. As long as the "donors" of the money understand that they only have paid for an expensive 8 x 11 piece of paper, then that's ok. Freedom means the right to have and enjoy this for sure. But, to me, SG seems to be taking advantage of folks this way. Who knows, in the future, the certificate may be an ephemeric collectible? It would be fun to see the certificate though.
  • And what is the agreement when it sells?
    Because the math doesn't entirely add up on 80,000 shares either. 80,000 x 100 = $8,000,000. But the stamp's hammer price was $8,307,000 with a 18% buyers premium, yields $9,802,260. That's 1.8 million short of what was paid for it. Is SG holding 18,000 additional shares themselves? And when it sells again, I assume they will "split" the total sale value. Now this is interesting because if it doesn't sell for more then they paid originally, they still have all of it covered (assuming they have sold all 80,000 "share" and I would expect they won't put it up for sale before all those are sold). Let's say it sells for $7,000,000 this time. But wait! They've already collected $8 million against their $9,802,600 cost. Now that 7,000,000 gets divided among the 80,000 share holders. So for your $100 investment, you get $87.50 back.
    In the meantime, they collect the full $1,575,000 for their 18,000 shares, plus $1,000,000 from the remainder of the $8,000,000 they collected for the 80,000 shares, and walk away with $2,575,000 while you get... $87.50 for your $100 investment.

    Just saying...
    Of course if it goes for more, then they make more but the point here is this is Win-Win for them, and potentially lose-win for 80,000 members of the syndicate.
  • If these are ever actually honored and redeemed as market viable "shares" I will happily eat my 20 year old hat.
  • edited November 2021 1 LikesVote Down
    Here’s the fine print:

    Notice the part that says:
    “You do not have any right to ‘redeem’ your fractions. Once you have purchased it, it is yours to keep, or to Transfer, if you choose to do so.”

    It’s worse than one of those timeshare vacation scams.
  • I am sure it will be an SG Auction Event so they will get commission on both sides 10% sellers and 18% buyers) Is that where the Profit lies?
  • A note regarding the math, it is 80,000 x 100 british pounds (if you purchase after tomorrow, the early birds get 10% off), = 8 million pounds, which is something like $10,800,000 US$ not factoring in however many shares are purchased for 10% off.
  • That batch of fine print is genuine toilet reading.
    Seems way too much like a random phone call from a foreigner wanting to talk to me about an extended car warranty.
  • I agree with you Don big reason I only answer 5% of my phone calls unless it shows the caller name or place of origin I let it ring or press the FU button!
  • You don't "own" a piece of this stamp as much as Showpiece and SG have been promoting it. The contract clearly states that SG LEGALLY own the stamp in a basic trust set up where you are merely a beneficial owner, or in layman's terms, if they happen to make a profit, you get a cut of that profit as a beneficiary. Nearly everyone who is boasting they bought a share states they own a piece of the magenta - they don't and never will. They simple own a digital certificate and a lot of wishful thinking they ever see their money again (because the contract states that SG are holding the stamp "indefinitely!").

    SG and Showpiece CANNOT refer to this as an investment as it is UNREGULATED (even though it is an investment). Every major platform currently out there is regulated.

    Unlike other fractional platforms, there is ZERO opportunity to increase the value of your shares through demand and supply - they don't even have a trading platform until mid-next year!

    Other platforms also allow sellers to buy up to 100% of the shares and therefore the legal title passes over to the person owning 100% of the asset. This is not the case with SG.

    As stated in other forums, this release has been a dud. It has taken them over 48hrs to sell 8,000 shares. The recent USPS NFT release sold over 20,000 NFTs in less than second, the NFTs now sell between $40USD and $400USD. SG are plonking along with this pile of horse poo like they are breaking history - making it a breeding ground for those who have no idea what they bought into.
  • Yeah, this is not a "Syndicate" in the traditional sense of ownership. The more I see, the more it stinks. No one has mentioned also that "Showpiece" get 2.5% of the sale price as well. So you get "paid" on your "Share" after:

    1. Tax is deducted
    2. Without access to Buyer's Premium (i.e. hammer price only)
    3. After seller's premium is deducted (So take 10% of hammer)
    4. After "Showpiece" get their 2.5% (so take another 2.5% off the hammer)
    5. And then you get paid out on the fraction of your "beneficiary ownership"

    The only ownership of a "piece of history" here is in the amount SG stand to make no matter what the price of the stamp does.

    And it takes a 60% owners vote to sell it. And I love the line "IF Stanley Gibbons owns any share" hahahaha. So their real intention is to not own any of the 80,000? If they made it work, brilliant for them, it's win-win. For the "investors", not so much.
  • James, you mean you've been here since 2016, and I've never seen you before now? LOL
  • Scott you are preaching to the choir. Keep in mind SG owned Hipstamp for awhile and those of us who experienced the whole debacle will NEVER forget.
  • Carol, yeah I guess I missed out on that era. :)
    Guess I dodged a bullet.
    I mean, I appreciate they are trying to do something creative/modern/innovative to further their business, and that's fair. But do the homework on this, it doesn't add up. This is all an emotional ploy, that is win-win for them. They are now their own hedge fund.
    They will get 28% of sale value anyway, they will have made their money back by owning 0 of the shares (my original message I thought they were selling for $100 a share not £100 a share, so they will already have covered the hammer cost and buyers premium they paid assuming the GBP doesn't lose too much value by the time the shares are sold).

    So they really stand to lose nothing, unless they simply can't sell the share. But even then, they would probably still make money off of it even if it sold for $7,000,000.
  • SG do not own the stamp really - Phoenix do. SG borrowed the money from Phoenix who has a 58% stake in the SG. If I recall, SG ALSO have to pay Showpiece (also owned by Phoenix), 2.5% of the sale value. The legal title was shifted to SG for trust purposes. Until SG pay for the stamp, it is encumbered to Phoenix. SG are simply the label they slapped on this poodoo for marketing purposes. SG are pretty much on the verge of bankruptcy and running on an oily rag as it is. If this venture fails, Phoenix will either extend the debt agreement or SG will close shop for good.

    So SG have investments of £1m...they still need to have at least £7.6m JUST to satisfy the debt (plus anything Phoenix slaps on in terms of fees) - let alone repay investors. Shircore is spruiking that the returns on investment will be 20% above the FTSE. *roll eyes* This statement alone should have been a big red warning flag for investors.

    The only ones to be investing in is perhaps Castelnau (Showpiece)...buy they still have to outlay money to create the platform from the huge 2.5% income. Additional fees have to be coming soon similar to other platforms.

  • Ted - I lurk in many dark places of the www. ;)
  • I'm doing it now....lurking that is. LURK. Crap! I forgot the commas. LOL. Good to see you James!!!!
  • *shifty eyes*
  • Haha...so here is why you never trust unregulated gimmicks. 40,000 shares have been sold since going live to the general public. Amazing, you might say. But the devil is in the detail.

    A last minute change was made to the loan agreement before the pre-sale (5 Nov):

    "...in order to facilitate fractional ownership, the previous chattel mortgage held over the stamp by the group's majority shareholder Phoenix SG (PSG), a company controlled by PAMP, was being replaced by a fixed charge security over the proportion of the stamp in which the company had beneficial interest."

    Phoenix opened themselves up to risk as they no longer held the asset should this whole exercise turn into a dud. So after 3 days selling just 8000 pieces, and after 6 months of registrations for pre-sales (5,000 pre-registrations), suddenly, 1000+ collectors decided to buy at a higher price?

    NAH. As the fine print says..."A proportion will be retained indefinitely by Stanley Gibbons. See FAQs for more details."

    Phoenix are ensuring they get their loan back now they no longer have the asset and keeping their distance from SG Titanic.

  • Wow, this gets stinkier with each passing day.
  • Right...so it appears the massive updraft is due to SG acquiring 49% of available pieces to the general public.

    "*A proportion will be retained indefinitely by Stanley Gibbons. See FAQs for more details."

    "Consistent with the concept of democratisation, Stanley Gibbons want to make this opportunity available to all, however, as the world’s leading stamp dealer they also want to retain a meaningful economic interest in the 1c Magenta for the foreseeable future.

    Also in keeping with the concept of democratisation, Stanley Gibbons do not aim to retain a majority stake in the stamp and therefore will make 51% of the pieces in the 1c Magenta available for general sale.

    Additionally, Stanley Gibbons will not vote on any buyout offer made for the stamp thus allowing the individual owners to decide, as per the terms of purchase, whether to accept an offer or not."

    I don't know of any fractional platforms where the legal owner and the trustee own 49% of the fractions. Might need to dig a bit deeper...
  • Dammit...I bought more stamps while typing this. haha
  • That's seems contradictory to the statement that it requires 60% owner vote to sell the item...
  • Uhhuh....just about what I thought
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