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"REPRODUCTIONS" in a HipStamp Auction!!

Jeff FrazierJeff Frazier
in Questions 1 LikesVote Down
A Dealer on Hipstamp is Offering "REPRODUCTIONS" of US #C13-C15 in a Hipstamp Auction! I have inquired if these are ISSUED by the USPS and No Answer as Yet! In the Groups OPINION are these "REPRODUCTIONS" just that or are they Legal Stamps Issued by the USPS?? Any and All Comments are welcome!!
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Comments

  • 36 Comments sorted by Votes Date Added
  • Ron LenkeRon Lenke
    4 LikesVote Down
    Yah, they got busTED!
  • Rod TilyardRod Tilyard
    edited September 2020 4 LikesVote Down
    One of the big attractions to this site originally was that fakes and replicas were not allowed, the terms and conditions STILL reflect that.

    NOW these are apparently okay. I think we deserve an explanation from management please Mark.
  • Ron LenkeRon Lenke
    edited September 2020 4 LikesVote Down
    As a side issue, Carol brings up a good point: namely what are reasonable expectations for a dealer in verifying before listing of stamps that have a reputation of being faked (ie: Scott cataloq notations alluding to a known history of counterfeits)? Does an asking price in line with a genuine example confer a legitimacy? Does the qualification "may be real", "may be fake", "counterfeits known to exist" exempt the seller from recourse under a buyer beware defense, burdening the buyer to prove otherwise? Because of the many stamps worldwide that have been faked, this is no minor problem. Do we exclude all those affected issues because of the possibility? Do we require authentication? A while back I had an early Brazil stamp to list of some value if genuine. I didn't have the means to determine if real or not. I engaged the forum's community to render opinions after downloading a photo of said stamp. The subsequent comments suggested it was a forgery, backing that conclusion by referencing expertizing done on early Brazilian stamps. Ultimately I listed the item as a forgery attributing it to the identified forger. It was offered at a very modest price and eventually purchased. Did I violate Hipstamp rules? Is there a provision here for those collectors who choose to, say, specialize in forgeries .... or are they marginalized for daring to step outside of a "legitimate" collecting field - maybe ok, but not in Hipstamp's backyard?
  • Harry PatsalosHHarry Patsalos
    4 LikesVote Down
    I agree that the modern computer generated reproductions and those fantasy overprint concoctions should be banned but lets not forget the "desirable" forgeries and reproductions. Sperati, Oneglia/Panelli (whose works are better than the originals) Postal Counterfeits especially on Cover, etc. There are collectors of Samuel Allen Taylor, Fournier and Spiro productions as well. In my opinion these are all legitimate collecting areas and enhance collections when properly described.
  • Ted TyszkaTed Tyszka
    3 LikesVote Down
    Per HipStamp terms of service:
    560115C3-CDC9-4FE9-925B-3D3081D9392D
  • Rene BravoRene Bravo
    2 LikesVote Down
    The Ted deals THE LAW! Judge, jury and executioner.....busted.
  • Richard PaulsRRichard Pauls
    2 LikesVote Down
    My understanding was that fakes and reproductions were not permitted for sale on this site (as about 1 1/2 years ago). However, several months ago when looking through the categories under which to list items for sale, I noticed under the Specialty Philately heading the subcategory of Fakes and Reproductions. There are presently several hundred items listed under that category. I had a "fake" to list and did so under that category; it sold after being listed for about a month at a very low price and at only a tiny fraction of the Scott value listing.
  • Jeff FrazierJeff Frazier
    2 LikesVote Down
    WEll I thought that HipStamps only dealt in ACTUAL Stamps so I won them at the Auction for $21.50, When I got them I was flabbergasted ! they look like the have been run off a high end photo copier, and then Perfed!!! I could see paying $5.00 but not $21.50!!!! Feel like such a Newbie!! :-(
  • Ron LenkeRon Lenke
    2 LikesVote Down
    How about the terminology "genuine authentic replica"? Now there's creative advertising.
  • Jeff FrazierJeff Frazier
    2 LikesVote Down
    Well He has another set in the HipStamp 197th No Reserve Auction Event as we speak and they are at $54.00 and the is 2 days 18+ hours to GO!!!! I can't believe he is doing this , but if its an Auction people are bidding against each other and "SETTING" the price , NOT HIM!! ITHINK THIS STINKS!!!
  • Rene BravoRene Bravo
    2 LikesVote Down
    I just saw the C13-15 Reproductions (fakes) on auction now at $55 dollars. When the details are listed it is listed as an authentic stamp. This is shady. Makes you wonder IF those bidding know they are buying 50cent fake lithos? Search c13-15 and you'll see it. I now think there is an issue here. I will never buy from that dealer ever.
  • Bill O'MalleyBill O'Malley
    edited September 2020 2 LikesVote Down
    These are considered by the government to be counterfeits and this is something the FBI should look into. If this seller is a member of any organization ( APS, ASDA etc. ) they should be reported and expelled.
  • Jeff FrazierJeff Frazier
    2 LikesVote Down
    TO ALL of you out there in STAMP LAND: YES I DID write H?S Customer service, Got an Email this AM at 6:12 am PST. That this issue had been turned over to TRUST & SAFETY, Ann Taylor DIR. of Support eCommerce wrote and said, "The site has been contacted, The Listing has been taken down be fore the conclusion of the Auction, dealer fined?< and warned this will not be tolerated." The Listing is indeed down off the Auction and off his HipStamp Site!
    This was because the Sites Listing and Actions " DO NOT COMPLY with our terms and Conditions!" Miss Taylor went on to say, "THANK YOU for bringing this to our Attention or Trust & Saftey(COMPLIANCE) dept. try and watch but customers are our unpaid Watchdogs!!" So Strike one for the Good Character of Philatelics Dealers!!!! I wonder if the fine HURT!! hahaha,Dirt bag, they should have Suspended him, HE "KNEW" he was ripping new collectors OFF His Site says he's a member of 3 different Assoc.s and has 15+yr.s in Philatelics!!! Thank you Gentle man for showing me the Path and your Balanced Help!!
  • Henry BrooksHHenry Brooks
    2 LikesVote Down
    Problem solved ?? Search the top bar

    Reproduction 240 items
    Replica 773 items
    Forgery 1441 items

    Not all are stamps, some are PO "reproductions" (Cipex sheet) . some are books on how to identify, etc ... ..and think of the tens of thousands of "reproductions, replicas and forgeries" out there listed as genuine stamps ....... buyer beware ... can you guarantee that you have taken the tine to personally authenticate every item you sell? Are all of those pesky Belgium Newspaper stamp overprints genuine ?

    Be careful what you wish for and remember that every certificate states it is an "opinion" ...
  • Ron LenkeRon Lenke
    2 LikesVote Down
    I think the better course is to bring the matter up to the governing authority for this site - ultimately Mark. Asking for re-iteration/clarification of Hipstamp's policy on what is being discussed here. I find it worthy to bring up the concern though, yet raising it to the level of accusation by name creates a precedent that might produce tentacles beyond the scope here.
  • William SandrikWWilliam Sandrik
    2 LikesVote Down
    Not to mention the first issue of Lombardy-Venetia postal forgeries. I've been looking for one for over 40 years and have only seen them in Auction catalogs. Scott does not list them, but they are in the Austrian and Italian catalogs and listed at very big prices!
  • Bill O'MalleyBill O'Malley
    2 LikesVote Down
    If it is a forgery it should be marked on that back as being a forgery otherwise it is wrong and should not be sold. That is the way it used to be years ago and anyone who is selling it with out being marked should be banned from selling on HipStamp period!!!
  • Jeff FrazierJeff Frazier
    edited September 2020 2 LikesVote Down
    Good Evening/Morning to ALL of you here, after Rene's comments, I felt compelled to investigate a little deeper, I found that the Dealer in question had offered that set of Reproductions at least 5 times before hand in hipstamp Auctions !!! Searching thru the feedback file I found that the sets had made him almost him almost $200.00+ in the time he had listed them in the Auctions. I can't prove this conclusion, But it seems as if HE did this "WITH A PURPOSE", that was to make money off of collectors that didn't KNOW BETTER!! With the time in as a SELLER and his Associations, its hard for me to swallow that He did this to be "NICE" and afford collectors that could not afford the "REAL THING" a chance to "Fill in those spots in their collections." This was HIS explanation to me when I asked Him. I don't think I will be buying from him in the future , NO MATTER how good the Bargain. I do Feel in my Bones that the dealer in question did this to put money in his OWN POCKET and NOT out of a sense of FAIRPLAY to lessor monied Collectors! Just my belief!!!!
  • Jeff FrazierJeff Frazier
    2 LikesVote Down
    Just 2 things left to say on this issue , that I brought to the FORUM, 1) LUREE, It was YOUR question to me that convinced me to act. THANK YOU for the "Voice of Conscious" question.. 2) with the variables now known, or the ones I could find, His answer to me in his Email, the fact that He said they were worth between $20 & $30 dollars, and the FACT of HOW he LISTED them on HIS listing for the Auctions, giving him an out,"Well the buyers drove the PRICE", and the FACT that he was doing it KNOWINGLY for a period of time, I (personally Believe) , HE DID what he did after thinking about it and finding a way HE could do it that would cause "REASONABLE DOUBT" of his GUILT. WITH his experience and time in this AREA of Philatelics, personal Integrity is a BIG part of being successful in this Venue, and I BELIEVE he crossed over to the "DARK SIDE"!! I don't Know the dealer personally, and maybe he was doing it out of the goodness of his Heart, BUT(!!!!!) if this is the case why didn't he just list them and IDENTIFY them Clearly as REPRODUCTIONS for the purpose HE, HIMSELF stated, "TO help the newer or collectors that didn't have the means to PURCHASE the REAL ITEM???? NUFF SAID!! AND AGAIN Thanks to All of the people whom have contributed to this DISSCUSION, I have Learned so much in this FORUM, from all of you!!!! Respectively, Jeff FRAZIER, IT continues to be Enlightening and FUN!!
  • Jeff FrazierJeff Frazier
    1 LikesVote Down
    TED T, Michael, HEY RON L> ANY thoughts on this guys??? These are being "LISTED" as 1930 Stamps, and although I can't ever see a reason for me to spend between $1100.00 & $2000.00 for the actual stamps( if I won the Lottery.hahaha)I find it Amazing that He can put these in the Auction as Stamps vis a vie "REPRODUCTIONS"
  • Rene BravoRene Bravo
    1 LikesVote Down
    I just found those on Ebay for twenty bucks. I would say they are being sold as "space fillers", but not actual stamps.Worthless as true philatelic items, but $20??? Why ? But they are not represented as authentic.
  • Rod TilyardRod Tilyard
    1 LikesVote Down
    ??? A search for reproduction returns 238 listings currently on HipStamp. Seems management here are condoning these ???
  • Jeff FrazierJeff Frazier
    1 LikesVote Down
    SO I guess I should rat out the Dealer to Hip Stamp?? or should I write the dealer and ask for my money back and return his "REPRODUCTIONS!!"
  • Rene BravoRene Bravo
    edited September 2020 1 LikesVote Down
    Jeff, I have to ask, did you see the items displayed as "reproductions"? If so, the onus is on you for purchasing it. On the other hand, if the seller did not prominently display that these were facsimiles, then you have a case for refund. But the price should have been a huge red flag before purchase. Classic philatelic legends such as C 13-15 don't go for $20 unless obtained in a shady fashion.
  • Jeff FrazierJeff Frazier
    1 LikesVote Down
    They were in one of the HipStamp Auctions , where the Starting Bid is $0.01 and goes from there!! The word Reproduction was used Once, under the Listing of the Items they were presented the same as any stamp Sc # and Issue year! I did confuse the word Reproduction with RE ISSUE and the fact that I believed Fakes were not allowed on the Site!! And you are right I should have asked before the Auction was over, So it is on me, to a point, He didn't Really MAKE it 100% plain thaT these were NOT REAL STAMPS. The word Reproduction was only used Once, besides I just think he should make it PLAIN that they ARE NOT STAMPS, You Live you Learn!! I don't need a refund!! I got taken to School once again!! haha
  • Peter JonesPPeter Jones
    1 LikesVote Down
    Jeff. There is a additional issue with fake stamps, and that is that they might be sold on to someone rlse, pergaps a novice collector, and told that the stamps are real. There is a seller on "another site" who advertises his with the word FACSIMILE in the title and he believes this absolves him from blame, but usually only the back of the cover is labelled as facsimile so someone could buy this cover, cut off the back, (or part of it) and sell it as a genuine part cover. A big worry.
  • George DeKornfeldGeorge DeKornfeld
    1 LikesVote Down
    1439 listings found.
  • Luree HughesLuree Hughes
    1 LikesVote Down
    Jeff, did you open a ticket to the staff or have you just made us aware of this situation on the forums?

    If no ticket was opened, please do so. The staff needs to know what is going on and they don't always have the time to read each and every thread.
  • Rene BravoRene Bravo
    1 LikesVote Down
    Chalk up one for the team
  • Jeff FrazierJeff Frazier
    1 LikesVote Down
    I AGAIN want to THANK ALL of you who "CHIMED IN" with info and thoughts! Received another THANK YOU from HipStamp today via Email, for bringing the situation to their Attention! Well last I checked the bid was at $59.45 for the Bogus listing of the C13-C15 "REPRODUCTIONS!!" "WE Saved" someone a lot of disappointment!!! And I for one am Very Glad about how, With all of "Your HELP" and I do mean the Royal Your/WE !! Thanks to All who added to the conversation! It was definitely a WIN for the Good Guys!! Be well Jeff!!! ;-))
This discussion has been closed.