return or not to return
Switzerland loaded vintage stamp collection scot value $24,000+
mint and used collection on scott specialty pages. A potent 1800's to 1960's vintage of clean sets and singles. Includes better classics and clean moderns. Catalogue value over $24,000 with nice surprises. Includes more pages than photographed.
sold by Thony the Dealer in New Jersey
after checking out by turn over the stmaps on the first page of this 66 page "collection" I flipped out . all falsch not even one genuine.
now what ..return or not return. .i am just pis... off again getting scammed by nice words and photos. ..that is Hipstamp for you .. to good to be true! so be aware ..you are warned ..
mint and used collection on scott specialty pages. A potent 1800's to 1960's vintage of clean sets and singles. Includes better classics and clean moderns. Catalogue value over $24,000 with nice surprises. Includes more pages than photographed.
sold by Thony the Dealer in New Jersey
after checking out by turn over the stmaps on the first page of this 66 page "collection" I flipped out . all falsch not even one genuine.
now what ..return or not return. .i am just pis... off again getting scammed by nice words and photos. ..that is Hipstamp for you .. to good to be true! so be aware ..you are warned ..
Comments
Zurich is either 18,500 or 25,000 (At a quick glance not sure if it's 1L1 or 1L3)
Geneva 2L3 Cats at 2,000
Geneva 2LU1 cats at 22,500
Geneva 2L1 cats at 42,500
and the Basel cats at 15,500
Per Scott 2021.
A little research on your part should have told you those most likely were not genuine.
Should the seller have stated that in the listing or not pictured those? Yes Do I know if he stated that those were not counted in the CV? No because I don't have the actual listing in front of me and you didn't post a link to it.
And without knowing what's in the rest of collection there is no way to know if the CV that the seller stated is actually in there or not. You didn't provide the actually listing and what the dealer actually stated in the listing. Second you didn't state how much you paid for it either.
to all those smarty out there .. yes i did learn my lesson as a beginner .. with good money. yes hipstamps provides a platform to do such slick business.to operate.. my lesson well learned and not fall for such anymore yes i did buy the scoot and Zumstein books . i think prices for stamps is soft very soft ..but at least better as buying lottery tickets at least some nice papers to look at .
Here is the listing (You can tell by the Scott page that has the Cantons on it.)
https://www.hipstamp.com/listing/switzerland-loaded-vintage-stamp-collection-scot-value-24000-/37735642
The price paid on this lot was 997.50 plus postage, in which you paid about 4% of CV.
Yes, I can understand your disappointment but from what is shown the listing it does not appear that the seller was trying to rip you off. But that being said if you're disappointed about the lot write the seller and see if he will take it back. And if the seller is reasonable he will take it back.
I once sent a customer a glassine marked "A gift for you" with a selection of stamps similar to his order along with a his order. The customer complained that the free stamps were all hinged and demanded a refund.
I told him to send the entire order back to me and I would refund him along with the postage. Never heard from him.
At least that person communicated with me, not in a public forum. Customers have the option of communicating directly with the seller on HipStamp; involving HipStamp is the next option if there is no resolution. The final act is to file a complaint with PayPal. All kinds of options one of which would result in the satisfaction that forum members can't supply.
To many Hip will remain the evil empire, not because it is but because it is easier that way.
And never mind that most of the sellers will work with them if they only talk to them. Most of the sellers are fairly reasonable because having unhappy customers in which the problem is not resolved is not really a good thing for the seller.
I do not see what the issue is?
Not satisfied, then return it, no point in complaining on an open forum when you have a simple solution in front of you!
As I already did buy some binders etc.. i am too deep in it .. but as by now my message is if you do not know what you are doing staying out of the kitchen is my advise so i stay out no more buying
Yes, buyer beware when something is priced too good to be true, however, that does not forgive fraudulent (illegal) activity. The buyer should report this to HipStamp management so that this seller can be removed from this site. Also file a dispute with PayPal to get your money back.
The buyer should also not associate every seller on HipStamp as being of the same type as this seller. They slip in all the time, and it is not easy to keep track of them. When found, they need to be reported.
The buyer provided positive feedback, stating " no problems..very nice stamps..". Only later did they change their opinion when they saw the stamps on the first page were labeled as fakes. One shouldn't consider the entire purchase to be bad, simply because 5 stamps out of a 1,000 or more wasn't genuine.
Just as one shouldn't demand the seller be removed from this site because of a single transaction. They have been a member since 2007 with 99.7% positive feedback. Apparently other buyers are very happy with his stamps.
Now as far as the rest of it, you end up with a whole different batch of issues. If the seller included those stamps in a lot at NO CHARGE for them is the seller actually defrauding the buyer? Is the seller actually SELLING fakes if they are included in a lot at no extra charge for them? If outside of those items, if the lot does contain $24,000 of CV is the seller actually defrauding the buyer?
My gold standard for sellers would be Dr. Robert Friedman & Sons. Best descriptions bar none. He would have said that the stamps in question were present but that they were assumed to be forgeries and were not counted in the catalog value; this seller should have done that.
I sell only individual stamps with scans of both front and back. It is generally easy to spot faults, especially with the magnification provided with the high quality scans that I take of each stamp. But the issue of forgeries, either of the stamp itself or of overprints or cancellations, scares me as a seller. One mistake, one posting of such a mistaken listing here on the forums, and some would be calling for my expulsion from this venue. As a result, I don't list such stamps until I have had a chance to have them examined and declared either actual postal issues or forgeries.
Selling collections must be a nightmare for the sellers, especially sellers that rely upon such sales for their livelihood. I have purchased many collections and accumulations over the years and surprises, usually bad, always seem to crop up. A professional seller can't examine each and every stamp from every collection that they sell for authenticity; that would be physically impossible in regards to the time that would take. Collections that are sold as never hinged, and I have purchased a number of them, usually have the stamps mounted in something like Showgard mounts. Many to most of the stamps are pristine, but then you may also come across a number where previous owner used his tongue to slobber the back of the mount to wet the water-soluble glue and now you have the stamp glued to the inside of the mount because the previous owner's saliva bled through that slit on the back of the mount.
My advise would be for buyers to beware of everything. If you notice an issue with anything, contact the seller and request a refund after the item in question has been returned. If something for sale looks too good to be true (this collection for example), ask a few questions about it before bidding on it or purchasing it. If it is an example where the seller may have overlooked something or may have made an honest mistake, leave a neutral feedback stating how things were handled. If the seller is practicing what appears to be obvious deception, leave negative feedback after the transaction has been completed and refund received. Too many negatives, especially when reasons for the negative feedback are stated, can come back to haunt a seller by turning potential buyers away from their offerings.
Complaining about sellers in the Forums is useless. While it might give you a chance to blow off some steam, nobody looks at these posts so it is actually useless. If you have an issue with a seller, get your refund, leave negative feedback and don't do any business with them again. If you are exceptionally upset with the transaction for whatever reason, contact this site's management and post a complaint about the seller.
I believe that I only left one negative feedback comment in all my years here on this site. It was for a booklet pane from 1930's Germany. It was listed as the gum being Never-Hinged. When I received the item, there were two very obvious hinge marks on the back. German material from that time period has a very high premium for Never-Hinged condition, so I was obviously upset. So I left a negative feedback. The seller contacted me and stated that it really wasn't his fault because he had problems seeing! And it was his first negative feedback and why did I do that to him! I did get a full refund, but a second German booklet pane from that same seller that I had a bid on was then taken down before the auction closed. My assumption was that it also had hinged gum rather than the stated Never-Hinged gum. I never bid or any of his auctions again nor purchased anything from his store. And this is a seller that is still busy here in HipStamp and who has been praised by others here on the Forums recently as being a top-notch seller.
SALE FEE NOT PAID..
no info about it , my paypal was charged 2 times unable to contact the seller , suggested by Paypal contact the seller . no answer .
overall not very pleasant experiences .. as said i will stay out of the kitchen and no more buying or selling (if ever !) yes I did get the Zumstein and scoot .catalouge etc. .by now and yes in the collection i did get first page all Stamps have been fastened down so they could not been lifted by now I have the Lift fluid ?! page two of the collection has 3 struplis can be obtained for under 50 dollars 3. page the more costly "struplis "are missing .etc. yes i did pay my dues ..
For those four sellers who think there is nothing wrong with this, I have taken your names off my buy lists. You have lost my trust.
Go back and read what I actually said. I did agree with you that with the seller not stating anything about the fakes was misleading and HE SHOULD HAVE DONE THAT.
The question is does that rise to the level of fraud IF the CV of the items does NOT include the fakes. (Which is what you implied above) and which is quoted below
Yes, buyer beware when something is priced too good to be true, however, that does not forgive fraudulent (illegal) activity.
I never said we did know, what I said was IF the lot contained the $24,000 CV without the fakes does that mean that seller is actually defrauding the buyer? Which by the way you never answered. If what the seller is doing is rising to level the fraud you MUST BE ABLE TO PROVE IT.
I'm sure many listings containing multiple stamps on this site contain a few faulty stamps. Be they fake or damaged stamps. Should all of these sellers be barred from selling for not providing a disclaimer stating the stamps might not all be perfect? I have purchased stamps from Rosenberg that have been misidentified. By your definition, he is committing fraud because he sold something without a complete description and should be banned.
Most sellers have a return policy to assure customer satisfaction. Those that don't, I stay away from. Both buyers and sellers should be reasonable in their expectations and only deal within their comfort level. If not satisficed, request a refund. They shouldn't condemn this site because they don't like a seller or two.
My business should be able to survive nicely without a repeat of the same combined $15 in purchases by those poster's not liking my views on this topic which they made this past decade.
Now, look at all the deflection and false justification. Remember guys with the myopic view, there are probably hundreds of people reading this thread, and not commenting. Your attitudes send a message to them too, or did you forget about them too?
But by your very statements you are stating that the seller committed a crime. Here it is in your own words
Yes, buyer beware when something is priced too good to be true, however, that does not forgive fraudulent (illegal) activity. The buyer should report this to HipStamp management so that this seller can be removed from this site. Also file a dispute with PayPal to get your money back.
If you are going to claim that the seller is committing fraud you MUST prove that the seller is committing fraud. Just because you feel that it is fraud or that you personally perceive that it fraud, does NOT prove that it is fraud.
Legally this is how you have to prove it.
https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Fraud
Fraud must be proved by showing that the defendant's actions involved five separate elements: (1) a false statement of a material fact,(2) knowledge on the part of the defendant that the statement is untrue, (3) intent on the part of the defendant to deceive the alleged victim, (4) justifiable reliance by the alleged victim on the statement, and (5) injury to the alleged victim as a result.
These elements contain nuances that are not all easily proved. First, not all false statements are fraudulent. To be fraudulent, a false statement must relate to a material fact. It should also substantially affect a person's decision to enter into a contract or pursue a certain course of action. A false statement of fact that does not bear on the disputed transaction will not be considered fraudulent.
Second, the defendant must know that the statement is untrue. A statement of fact that is simply mistaken is not fraudulent. To be fraudulent, a false statement must be made with intent to deceive the victim. This is perhaps the easiest element to prove, once falsity and materiality are proved, because most material false statements are designed to mislead.
Third, the false statement must be made with the intent to deprive the victim of some legal right.
Fourth, the victim's reliance on the false statement must be reasonable. Reliance on a patently absurd false statement generally will not give rise to fraud; however, people who are especially gullible, superstitious, or ignorant or who are illiterate may recover damages for fraud if the defendant knew and took advantage of their condition.
Finally, the false statement must cause the victim some injury that leaves her or him in a worse position than she or he was in before the fraud.
If you want to question the sellers ethics that's one thing but if you're going to accuse someone of a crime you need to be able to prove it.