standards for sellers?? should we have some standards?

When I think I have seen it all I find something to top it! Seen by sheer chance……. and this time I thought I would make an observation, ask for thoughts and even make a suggestion.

Yes it is obvious this is damaged, actually damaged ain 5 places that are obvious LOL -- and yes it is advertised as damaged although the selling price is 3 times the catalogue value, and the catalogue value is 10p (GBP)

But seriously, two things concern me 1) is that someone thinks this is acceptable to list for sale, and 2) buyers who are starting their interest in philately might, (but I really hope not) think this is acceptable since it is available to buy on a respected philatelic portal.

Surely there needs to be some standards, some ethics from sellers? Am I dreaming here? ok don’t answer that:-)

It is all very well saying caveat emptor, but surely listing this for sale is wrong by any measure.

I realise I shouldn’t present a situation without offering a solution, so perhaps Hipstamp should have a moderator, who, if advised of this type of material, could, after due consideration and at their own judgement and with all due respect and courtesy, advise the seller with reason, that it is not acceptable material for listing on Hipstamp and block it from being listed.

Do we as sellers, and Hipstamp as an organisation, want this type of material, which could perhaps be seen to reflect poorly on the standards of sellers in general and Hipstamp as a Philatelic portal?

Or, do we all just ignore and let the buyers decide what is rubbish and what is not? and let the buyers decide it only reflects on the seller and not all sellers?

Michael cddstamps



  • 86 Comments sorted by Votes Date Added
  • Michael: I contacted this seller and asked him to respond on this thread for his reasoning in offering a faulty example at over five times what other sellers are offering sound examples for. It would be interesting to see his response and lets hope there is a response. Some on this site think it is okay to list common stamps in endless offers of singles no matter what condition they are in. You have raised a good point in asking for standards for sellers and I gave you my "LIKE" vote.
  • Michael, CDDStamps.
    BenjaminRSA (I normally would not comment on Forums (Chatter) as it takes too much of my time. Internet should have more debating sites but I have been invited to defend my Queen Elizabeth. Ownership comes with responsibility) LOL
    My dear fellow Seller, I see that terrible stamp in my store (for the first time in 15 years again) And am made aware of your serious concern regarding the market place's image.
    Not going to go into detail regarding the why, when and how, so I will just remove it for you.
    Is that ethical enough for you? An article I read in the The Guardian, "Can you be too ethical?" by Andrew Brown in 2013. You should read it.
    Thanks and happy selling !!
    Should anyone find any more of these terrible over priced stamps could you please inform me of them.)............................
  • Benjamin, Please do not take to heart the narrow minded thinking of a small (very small) percentage of the forum community. These people have been trying unsuccessfully to push their high minded standards on the selling community for a long time and if any moderation is needed, it should be to protect sellers from being bullied into pulling items THEY deem unfit.
  • Thank Mark, I am then not alone in the "standards debate", Or comments as "Selling Rubbish" and alike remarks from tiny bargain buyers.
  • edited February 2018 3 LikesVote Down
    Michael, I agree with you but many sellers don't seem to care, use common sense or are too lazy to be bothered to correct it. There is no need to worry about postings like this because they represent huge red flags for potential buyers.
  • I think we should have standards as to how we conduct ourselves in the Forum! Let's talk about ethics. Is it ethical to continually degrade other sellers and what they list because it doesn't meet your "high" standards?

    What reflects poorly on this Community is the unwelcoming elitist attitude that is starting to pervade through this Forum. All should be welcome here not just the buyers/sellers that you deem worthy.

    Mark, thanks for your comments. I couldn't agree more.

    Benjamin, you're not alone. A good portion of the Community is really tired of this.
  • Hi Jeri,
    Impressive store and a perfect reputation since 2007. I salute you.
    It takes hard work and many hours of research to maintain a store of that size.
    My Queen Elizabeth stamp is one of a few hundred that are clearly described as damaged.
    My Queen Elizabeth's price is now available at under $1 as millions of stamps with a low Scott value. Ebay minimum price for a single stamp is 0.99c if you sell it from your store.
    Thank Jeri, Appreciated.
  • Here's another example - same dealer. I don't know about you, but I'd pay 19c for this nicely-centered stamp with clean CDS strike any day of the week.

  • Hi Ted,
    Thank you, that stamp is as freshly listed as 20 minutes ago.
    My Queen Elizabeth comes from 1997 when I was an amateur seller and any stamp at that stage was perfect to my eye.
    Appreciated from a member of the American Philatelic Society - APS #218885
    Stamp Standards are their business.
  • This thread is useful because we have the outsider observation aspect and the back story as to how a stamp like this came to be listed.

    I've been selling for a long time, and I can say that if you ask 10 people what constitutes an acceptable condition stamp you are likely to get 10 different answers. I've encountered people who are fine with a stamp that was ripped in half and taped back together again on the back! So what is the definition an acceptable condition stamp? Once one tries to create rules for something like this, what is and isn't ok, becomes very hard to determine and police because there are so many perspectives as to what is acceptable.

    Personally I think the first step in a situation like this would be to send a note to the seller advising of the stamp and one's thoughts on the relative condition. If that had been done here, the seller would probably have removed it anyway because they now know that it is not ever going to sell, and it might put off other buyers. Each "advice" a seller gets has to be balanced with the senders perspective too given some senders may have inordinately high expectations. (ie the seller may be quite correct in doing nothing depending on what "advice" was given.

    I'm reminded of a relatively recent situation where I received a very terse and strongly worded message that a bankers box of Great Britain machins that I had priced at $300 (delivered) was simply a box of garbage/rubbish and I should be embarrassed to even be thinking of offering such for sale at all, let alone the price I was asking. A couple weeks later, a machin specialist purchased the box at that price. I so much felt like sending the sold notification to the "advice" giver, but of course refrained.....

  • I listed a Hitler stamp today that in many experts eyes should be thrown away. But this stamp has something unique about it. Irrespective its value or authenticity.
    For discussion purposes this is maybe a good one.

    The question is: Do I list it or do I chuck it?
    Please notice the post mark?
    Is this stamp valued on its catalog value or on its uniqueness.
    Did the Postal worker have anything to do with this? 15 Sept 1944
  • Jeri, well said.
  • well, so much for trying for a constructive discussion. I accept the Beat a Dead Horse Award. :-)
    I had no intention of presenting an "elitist attitude" I was just making an observation on the subject of standards, a subject well addressed in SG and Scott and other catalogues I am sure, but not, it seems, accepted on this portal. That is ok as well. Everyone to their own view I have no problem with that.

    As for the 25 September 1944 cancelled stamp, sure, list it, with explanation of the significance of the date and Oosterbeek cancel.

    Best wishes to everyone. Michael

  • Michael Dodd: I don't think you should be too quick to accept this award. I thought it was directed at others who don't go to the root of the thread. This was a damaged stamp offered at over five times what other sellers were asking. They seem to go off on some other subject attacking you for your elitist attitude. I haven't seen you adopting such a profile.
    If people get stuck with a damaged stamp I don't understand why they want to look for another sucker and pass it off to them at a profit. Perhaps some who like to list damaged stamps should think about what this thread is all about. Let me repeat it was for a damaged stamp selling for more than five times what others are selling a sound copy of the same stamp for. Perhaps a few of you could return to the subject and tell us what you think of such listings.
  • John,

    You are assuming that. My point is the very fact that ever since Mark started Stamp Wants these type of threads keep coming up OVER AND OVER AND OVER again. We are now going on 13 years of these type of threads and it seems like every 2-4 months SOMEONE posts this type of thread. The same 2 sides are STILL going at it after all this time and NOTHING has changed. It's like people keep expecting some sort of different results. (Never get there so......)

  • First of all my opinion doesn't matter as to whether those listings will or will not be allowed. That is up to the people who own and run the site. As long as there are buyers that look for and buy that type of stuff it will continue to be listed.
    As far as pricing no one in here can say WHEN someone listed something UNLESS the sellers states the YEAR of the cat they are using.

    Two on the pricing I can not ever be sure that the seller intended to list that item at that price UNLESS i ask the seller directly whether or not it could be a TYPO in the listing. (I have done it often enough myself to give the seller the benefit of the doubt unless I ask the seller. Using the bulk lister I missed adding the decimal point a few times and ended up with a few listings that were in the hundreds of dollars instead of a few bucks.)

    As far as a seller listing damaged items it's not cup of tea unless it's a higher value space filler and marked as such within the listing. I rather list the same type of material that I myself would have in my own collection. From an aesthetic stand point I think that they look much better NOT being damaged in the first place. But there are those people who are only looking for a picture to put into a book and they do not care to the same degree that I do or they may be buying some of these stamps that hey are giving to fairly young children so they are learning to handle stamps without giving them very good stamps UNTIL they learn HOW to handle the stamps without damaging them. (If they ruin stamps that are ALREADY damaged they can learn from it BEFORE they handle and ruin a $100 stamp.)

    There is a place for it but again it is NOT my cup of tea.
  • "Michael Dodd: I don't think you should be too quick to accept this award" & "As I asked. What do you really think of damaged stamps being offered on Hip Stamps at over five times what others are asking for a sound copy."

    I tend to agree, since the seller of the damaged stamp not only already explained himself in this thread, but remedied the situation as well. Congrats. The award's yours...
  • Thanks to all for a clean end.
    I accept the award with a smile. Sorry John, you missed it this time.
  • John Talman,

    The biggest problems that the one side NEVER deals with is the practical application of HOW Hipstamp would even begin to police all the listings on this site.

    #1 Who is going to set the standards of what is a good listing and that which is not? Is it the APS,the German Philatelic society,etc or a small group of sellers and buyers who have different wants and have totally different expectations?

    #2 Who is going to pay and train the people who are going to search and check out EVERY single listing on the site?

    #3 Is there going to be a person who oversees the work of the staff that would HAVE to be hired to wade through all the old listings AND all of the newer listings that are being added?

    #4 Who is going to pay for the staff to be hired or is it going to be a volunteer staff? Are you willing to pay more in fees to have Hipstamp HIRE a staff to search all the listings? (You CAN NOT expect a hired staff to work for free) Are you willing to pay 10-12% FVF to have Mark hire more people to just spend time looking at listings? Or are you willing to spend the time to go through a store that has almost 500,000 listings on your own time?

    #5 How is Hipstamp suppose to deal with the listings that have QUANTITIES per listing? (Remember those are SAMPLE SCANS and not the EXACT copy of what a buyer would receive.) How also would you deal with listings that have NO PICTURE

    If you have any ideas on how you would do this,Mark may very well be open to your ideas if you have a PRACTICAL and COST effective way of doing it. Until then it's NOT going to happen.

  • What Michael Dodd stated when he started this thread was that there should be some standards and code of ethics for sellers. I think Hip Stamps may already touch on this in their various rules. If a buyer or even a competing seller decided that a seller was abusing this they could simply draw this to the attention of Hip Stamps. Hip stamps could then take what action they thought was maintain a high standard of selling on Hip Stamps. Not a great deal of extra work for Hip Stamps. Some buyers and competing sellers may not wish to go directly to a seller and may even have tried the direct route with no satisfactory result and a continuing abuse of their selling on Hip Stamps. In this particular case the seller of the item has done the right thing. He removed an item that was hard on the eyes and asked for reports on other cases where he has overpriced damaged stamps. He even claimed the so called award. May all other sellers pay some attention to the issues raised and listen to those who may only be trying to help them in their business.
  • edited February 2018 4 LikesVote Down
    Just to clarify, we already have terms and conditions that all sellers are expected to follow. See our extensive Seller Procedures and Guidelines section for more details:

    That being said, as noted previously, we do not currently prohibit items from being listed just because they may be of lower value (and priced as such). More specifically, the original item referred to here is compliant with our terms and conditions.
  • John, you are looking for some kind of answer to your dilemma about how much we should be charging for a stamp that was accidentally listed at an incorrect price. Once again, you are like a dog with a bone and will not let this go. Please, for the sanity of all, please let this go. You got what you wanted, the listing has been removed.

    We will make mistakes, please forgive us and move on.
  • Dislike Button.
  • I strongly agree with Paul. This is exactly the reason many of us no longer enjoy coming to the boards. Time to close yet another thread I think. Luree, your comment, Jeri's comment, and all other similar comments are greatly appreciated.

    And yes, I think I will just stay away from here for awhile until sanity hopefully once again prevails. What a shame..
  • edited February 2018 5 LikesVote Down
    It was an honest mistake and it was corrected. I don't know about you, but I'm human and I will make mistakes. I don't know everything about stamps, but I do sit and listen to everybody and I learn a lot. However, when I person says I have something listed incorrectly I take the time to do more research and if I agree with them I thank them and correct the mistake. I don't pour salt into the wound and then beat it senseless. Too much time on your hands to be pointing a finger and telling all what a bad seller we are. Move on.

    And thank you Carol, appreciate your comments. I think you have a grand idea. Staying away for a spell. It's getting too toxic around here.
  • Please note that we have removed John T's comments as they were not appropriate.

    Carol/Luree, we'll be taking appropriate action to ensure this type of activity does not continue. While the original post by Michael D was not an issue, and certainly welcome for discussion, the type of activity and comments you were referring to are not welcome here. With that in mind, I hope that both the two of you, as well as our other members, continue to enjoy the community we've built together, including here in our forums.

    Additionally, if you believe another member's comments are out of line, and do not follow our forum guidelines, please feel free to message me directly.
  • This thread has made me aware that it is time to revamp my store BenjaminRSA.
    Benjamin Corporate has come from 1987 as a collector's store and all old listings are still around.
    I have just revamped my Rhodesia and Nyasaland listings for all interested.
    All 176 old images and confusing prices have been replaced and adjusted.
    My plan is to revamp my whole store over a period of time by re-listing and adjust old listings where needed when new listings are done.

    I would like to thank all members for their contribution to this thread.

  • Nice stamp.

    That is a big undertaking! I tried to do that last year and only got so far and the project got put to the side. Every now and then I revisit it for a day and then put it down.

    Good luck on your new project.
  • Luree, Thank you.

    It should be part of one's new listings depending on the number of listings involved.
    I think all dead countries and exotic countries should work out well.

    The moving from one site to another is the nightmare with a huge store like mine.
    My plan is to hit that hundred thousand mark....a dream come true for me !!!
    100,000 listings, wow !! 46 thousand to go.

    Nice prospect.
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