standards for sellers?? should we have some standards?
When I think I have seen it all I find something to top it! Seen by sheer chance……. and this time I thought I would make an observation, ask for thoughts and even make a suggestion.
Yes it is obvious this is damaged, actually damaged ain 5 places that are obvious LOL -- and yes it is advertised as damaged although the selling price is 3 times the catalogue value, and the catalogue value is 10p (GBP)
But seriously, two things concern me 1) is that someone thinks this is acceptable to list for sale, and 2) buyers who are starting their interest in philately might, (but I really hope not) think this is acceptable since it is available to buy on a respected philatelic portal.
Surely there needs to be some standards, some ethics from sellers? Am I dreaming here? ok don’t answer that:-)
It is all very well saying caveat emptor, but surely listing this for sale is wrong by any measure.
I realise I shouldn’t present a situation without offering a solution, so perhaps Hipstamp should have a moderator, who, if advised of this type of material, could, after due consideration and at their own judgement and with all due respect and courtesy, advise the seller with reason, that it is not acceptable material for listing on Hipstamp and block it from being listed.
Do we as sellers, and Hipstamp as an organisation, want this type of material, which could perhaps be seen to reflect poorly on the standards of sellers in general and Hipstamp as a Philatelic portal?
Or, do we all just ignore and let the buyers decide what is rubbish and what is not? and let the buyers decide it only reflects on the seller and not all sellers?
Michael cddstamps
Comments
What reflects poorly on this Community is the unwelcoming elitist attitude that is starting to pervade through this Forum. All should be welcome here not just the buyers/sellers that you deem worthy.
Mark, thanks for your comments. I couldn't agree more.
Benjamin, you're not alone. A good portion of the Community is really tired of this.
We will make mistakes, please forgive us and move on.
Carol/Luree, we'll be taking appropriate action to ensure this type of activity does not continue. While the original post by Michael D was not an issue, and certainly welcome for discussion, the type of activity and comments you were referring to are not welcome here. With that in mind, I hope that both the two of you, as well as our other members, continue to enjoy the community we've built together, including here in our forums.
Additionally, if you believe another member's comments are out of line, and do not follow our forum guidelines, please feel free to message me directly.
What is the point in telling a dealer how to run his/her business? Does anyone tell you how to run your business ? This country was founded on free trade and commerce - why do people always feel the need to tell someone else what to do when it is not hurting anyone? You run your business the way you want to and I will run my business the way I want to (within the rules and regs of the site). If the rules and regs become too restrictive you will find a lot of dealers leaving. Why do you constantly seek to destroy what has worked for a very long time.
Sorry but this whole thing with telling dealers what to sell and how they should price things is really getting to me. I've been in business since 1985 starting with classifieds in Linn's and a monthly auction - I think I have a fair idea of what I am supposed to be doing.
As a Seller...
I pledge to always conduct myself and store as an ethical business; considering customers the most important part of my enterprise.
I pledge to offer an honest price for my products, taking in consideration my costs and fairness in pricing.
I pledge to respond to customer needs in the quickest fashion possible. Including prompt shipping and response to customer concerns.
I pledge to adhere to the belieft that customers, while not always right, are communicating with me for a reason and I must meet their concerns and complaints with the same attitude as I meet their praise.
I pledge to always keep in my mind that I am a member of a community of buyers and sellers who must exist in harmony; I will therefore treat other sellers with the same consideration and care that I treat my customers.
I pledge to maintain the honesty, integrity and trustworthiness that the hobby demands,
And yes, I think I will just stay away from here for awhile until sanity hopefully once again prevails. What a shame..
And thank you Carol, appreciate your comments. I think you have a grand idea. Staying away for a spell. It's getting too toxic around here.
That being said, as noted previously, we do not currently prohibit items from being listed just because they may be of lower value (and priced as such). More specifically, the original item referred to here is compliant with our terms and conditions.
As Michael Duehr asks " ... are you willing to spend the time to go through a store that has almost 500,000 listings on your own time?" to locate the "trash" and how do you define it. Unfortunately I am tasked with that responsibility. Personally I would never have listed some of the material, but to my surprise, some of the "trash" actually sells including torn, stained and separated stamps. This goes to show the "value" of a stamp is in the eyes of the beholder. One example was a really badly centered US#948, so I included a well centered copy at no additional cost in the order. The buyer thanked me for including the "bad" copy because that is what he really wanted. I was also pleasantly surprised at making multiple sales of the same stamp to the same buyer. Currently my inventory is decreasing in size because I'm spending all my time trying to "identify" many of the 50,000+ stamps previously listed as "unidentified box items" and deleting some of the really "badly torn or stained" stamps. In the meantime I probably will continue to annoy some collectors, but others like it.
When I first saw this thread, I thought it would be about me from someone who has private messaged me several times advising that I was dishonest and couldn't be trusted because I list defective stamps and it was his duty to tell everyone about me in the forum. I advised him that my stamps were guaranteed and a full refund would be provided for any reason, if the buyer was unhappy. He simply told me that it was ridiculous for me to be guaranteeing a defective stamp. "You show You are ridicolous and swindler every time You put in sale such stamps. The only thing You had to do iwas to cancel this sale and to Excuse yourself. You , on the contrary, were arrogant and rude. You should have to ashame yourself." Apparently grammar is not his top priority.
Personally I didn't think the stamp was as bad as this buyer claims. Was I wrong? Listing ID: 1216103 (Sorry I don't know how to place a link here). Your comments including an "appropriate" value for this stamp would be appreciated. I was told it shoud be zero. Thanks for your feedback.
The theme of my opening post was to ask a question and see what members views were. Seems after a few responses they become personal and not that pleasant. And also, we seemed to get off track from my opening points and questions pretty quickly.
I am not pushing my standards. Not all. I am a realist and pragmatic about what may or not be a definition of quality because there are so many interpretations and aspects to be considered. But I see no reason to not ask the question. And, I see no reason to be personally attacked for asking the question.
The concensus seems to be let the buyer decide because it is what the buyer wants for their collection that counts. That is fine with me. I have no objection to that. None at all. In fact I welcome that because as I know from my experience some buyers do pick up “spacefillers”.
But let’s all remember we should be describing our material correctly. What is “correctly” you may ask. Correctly is, in my opinion, to remember the definitions set up in, for example, and I use this as it is from a respected source, the Stanley Gibbons Catalogue Forward – a very clear and meaningful guide, again in my opinion ( yes I have been watching too much of The Goodwife (that was a joke you will get if you have ever seen the show ) – the Section I refer to is The Importance of Condition – Condition Guide. Scott does the same; Section 10A Grade and Condition, and again is very well articulated.
Why did I ask the original question, why do I think this. Well because if you read the many stamps groups on, for example, Yahoo Groups, you will see writer after writer showing stamps and asking what they are worth. They might have found the stamps in an attic, or been given them from a relative or family member and know nothing about stamps or philately. If we are to encourage the participation in this wonderful hobby, this wonderful activity, then surely we have a responsibility to be informative to collectors so they can in turn enjoy their involvement, at whatever level of, lets say, sophistication and expertise they wish to achieve because they can learn the knowledge we as sellers have gained over many years. And, in particular, so that people with collections handed to them, or new collectors in a few years time, perhaps, find their stamps are worthless because they are damaged or let’s say of not such good quality, and they say…. but I bought them for a dealer…………….. our reputation further eroded?
If discussing this was to beat a dead horse, so to speak, I apologies as I was not aware it had been discussed so much over the years. If it came across that my thinking was narrow minded I apologies for poorly presenting my question, and if it came across as me having high mined standards and bullying anyone then I again apologise. None of that describes me in the slightest.
Also, I was not degrading a seller – I will never degrade another seller - I never even mentioned a seller - and after the seller was named I can only say he has my respect - and apology for what may have turned out to cause him embarrassment. After all it was not his original listing anyway, was it, and not a reflection on him. I repeat, I was using the stamp in the image as an example, to ask a question. Sadly it all got distorted, didn’t it!
Finally, I will not be writing again, much as I welcome discussion and hearing the views of others on many philatelic matters, it seems threads – this one and many others that I have read - cannot be kept on track, responses become personal attacks and, as others have rightly said, time to stay away for a while. And Yes, it is time to close this thread.
michael cddstamps
Many collectors (and fellow dealers) used to love “quarter boxes” - shoeboxes full of the same stamp design that sold for $25. Things like 2 cent red baby bank notes, GB #33’s, early GB kings issues with their color and watermark variations, #210’s, #213’s, even glassines with 1000 #65’s would show up once in awhile.
These provided material for the true stamp addict - they are no more. Sure, there are cigar boxes full of “neat stuff”, but most have been heavily picked over multiple times.
The same people who used to go through those are the ones who enjoy going through the so called “junk” on here. They are the backbone of the hobby, One of my first customers back in the 80’s would sit at my table for an hour or two pouring over my stock. He bought a lot of cheap material for cancels, color, etc. He always shared why he picked a particular 5 cent stamp out of my books - even if they were defective.
One day he brought a page from one of his collections in to show me. It was the Canadian Jubilee issue - complete - used.. Every stamp had a nice,full or partial CDS. It was truly remarkable. He told me he collected used rather than mint because it was a lot harder to find choice or unique used material than new. It took him over 20 years to fill the last space with a high value postally used copy. He said he could go out and buy a mint set tomorrow if he wanted to but it was no fun.
I have a friend who makes a very good living buying and selling stamps, postal history and ephemera. He gets as excited at finding something different worth 5 cents as he does at something worth hundreds of dollars. He thinks of his stock as his collection - wish I could do likewise - there is so much I want to keep…..
I do wish shipping and the incremental charges were visible without having to click through several steps to determine them for a given item.
I had no intention of presenting an "elitist attitude" I was just making an observation on the subject of standards, a subject well addressed in SG and Scott and other catalogues I am sure, but not, it seems, accepted on this portal. That is ok as well. Everyone to their own view I have no problem with that.
As for the 25 September 1944 cancelled stamp, sure, list it, with explanation of the significance of the date and Oosterbeek cancel.
Best wishes to everyone. Michael
Benjamin Corporate has come from 1987 as a collector's store and all old listings are still around.
I have just revamped my Rhodesia and Nyasaland listings for all interested.
All 176 old images and confusing prices have been replaced and adjusted.
My plan is to revamp my whole store over a period of time by re-listing and adjust old listings where needed when new listings are done.
I would like to thank all members for their contribution to this thread.
John - my response was not directed at you. I tried to use generic terms like "people" and "other dealers" and the word "you" appears far too often. If you remember I responded to your request for thoughts on pricing levels via PM and promised to visit your store. I did so the other day and look forward to spending an hour or so when I have more time - you have a nice inventory.
I do acknowledge the need for rules and regulations and the rules and regulations here are more than fair and allow for a large degree of freedom without allowing for abuse - just about perfect. My wording could have probably been improved as I was not actually trying for negativity - just wanted to state my own opinion. Sorry that anyone took offense, like I said it was not meant to be directed at anyone in particular.
While this dealer only sells quality material with nothing under 99 cents, I checked his store today and discovered nearly 300 stamps valued at or under the incremental $2 shipping charge thus doubling the real cost to buy. This clearly demonstrates my suggestion of minimum value as being clearly inadequate. I had thought of another possible solution of establishing a policy requiring all listings to be priced at or above the store's incremental shipping charge. While this policy might be a small improvement, it doesn't address the major problem.
Carol's suggestion of showing the shipping charges with each listing, similar to the "hip value" currently being shown, would clearly be the best approach. This allows the buyer to know his "real cost" before buying or bidding. No "surprises" should make everyone happy.
Here's hoping this or an even better solution can be implemented soon.
benjamin
I've been selling for a long time, and I can say that if you ask 10 people what constitutes an acceptable condition stamp you are likely to get 10 different answers. I've encountered people who are fine with a stamp that was ripped in half and taped back together again on the back! So what is the definition an acceptable condition stamp? Once one tries to create rules for something like this, what is and isn't ok, becomes very hard to determine and police because there are so many perspectives as to what is acceptable.
Personally I think the first step in a situation like this would be to send a note to the seller advising of the stamp and one's thoughts on the relative condition. If that had been done here, the seller would probably have removed it anyway because they now know that it is not ever going to sell, and it might put off other buyers. Each "advice" a seller gets has to be balanced with the senders perspective too given some senders may have inordinately high expectations. (ie the seller may be quite correct in doing nothing depending on what "advice" was given.
I'm reminded of a relatively recent situation where I received a very terse and strongly worded message that a bankers box of Great Britain machins that I had priced at $300 (delivered) was simply a box of garbage/rubbish and I should be embarrassed to even be thinking of offering such for sale at all, let alone the price I was asking. A couple weeks later, a machin specialist purchased the box at that price. I so much felt like sending the sold notification to the "advice" giver, but of course refrained.....
You are assuming that. My point is the very fact that ever since Mark started Stamp Wants these type of threads keep coming up OVER AND OVER AND OVER again. We are now going on 13 years of these type of threads and it seems like every 2-4 months SOMEONE posts this type of thread. The same 2 sides are STILL going at it after all this time and NOTHING has changed. It's like people keep expecting some sort of different results. (Never get there so......)